Jenine Kenna (@JenineKenna) is a Kindhearted Badass and I mean that literally. Now her and her business partner, Heather Compton have started Kindhearted Baddass Community which helps moms learn to prioritize themselves without feeling guilty.
Within a few years, the Kindhearted Baddass group has grown with lifelong members and friends being formed every day. They offer their members access to programs, courses and mindset discussions to help moms deal with the stress of raising kids, maintaining a home while trying to nurture their own needs.
Jenine shares what podcast means to her; her struggles with podcasting and ADHD; and how she finally found how to connect with her community through podcasting.
Topics that we covered:
- What is a Kindhearted Baddass
- Managing a business while being a stay-at-home mom
- Her struggles with podfade and how she overcame them
- The power of taking imperfect action
- How she inspires her community
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Select Links From This Episode:
- Jenine on Facebook
- Jenine on Instagram
- Kindhearted Badass Community
- Tim Ferriss Episode 01 (The drunk one)
- What is a Kindhearted Badass and how did the community start? [01:11]
- Why is serving their Ideal Customer Avatar Important [03:36]
- Why Jenine gave up on her first 3 podcasts [05:41]
- How to find true passion behind podcasting [06:23]
- How did Jenine struggle with creating the Kindhearted Baddass Show [07:35]
- Why Jenine spent hours preparing for each podcast episode [10:51]
- How Jenine went from 3 hours to less than 1 hour of preparation time [12:27]
- How to let go of perfection and embrace imperfect action [13:39]
- How did Jenine’s listeners respond to her imperfect podcast [15:26]
- Why asking for help and knowing who to turn to is the most important way to move forward [17:02]
- Why it’s ok to suck at something at first in order to just get started [19:10]
- When you have a community, why it’s important to practice what you preach [20:45]
[00:00:00] Cliff Duvernois: Hello! Everyone. And welcome to Entrepreneurs on Podcasting! Today my guest is a Kindhearted Badass and I mean that literally. Now her and her business partner, Heather have started this really awesome group. And we’ll talk in more about that in just a second, but she’s done a phenomenal job of taking this group from idea to making it a real force of nature, and it is helping her ideal customer avatar.
Please help me in welcoming to the show the host of the Kindhearted Badass show, Jenine Kenna. Jenine how are you?
[00:00:59] Jenine Kenna: Hi Cliff. I am great. How are you?
[00:01:02] Cliff Duvernois: I’m doing well. Thank you for asking. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about what a kindhearted bad-ass is.
[00:01:08] Jenine Kenna: Sure. Well, I mean, that was quite the introduction. Thank you.
[00:01:11] Cliff Duvernois: You’re welcome.
[00:01:11] Jenine Kenna: So Kindhearted Badass came about when my best friend, Heather and I we were both kind of trying to build parallel businesses, but we didn’t really know what we were doing or who we wanted to serve. And we realized that we kept putting our heads together finally one day.
I say she proposed to me. She’s like, why don’t we just build a business together? And that’s how Kindhearted Badass started. It actually started as a fitness group, which is really funny because that’s not at all what it has turned into over the last year. Now a Kindhearted Badass so it’s got multiple parts.
We have our Kindhearted Badass crew, which is our membership community. And that is invitation only after somebody goes through one of our courses. We currently have a course centered around a vision casting and creating a vision board that actually works. And the whole belief of Kindhearted Badass is that women and men, we do have some Kindhearted Badass men, of course, but it is mostly women that we can and should combine our kindhearted nature.
With our intrinsic badass-ery and just become these, as you said, unstoppable forces of nature, right? So that’s that’s what we help women learn how to do live their best lives and connect with their inner bad-assery and learn that being a bad-ass and being kindhearted are not mutually exclusive.
[00:02:37] Cliff Duvernois: You’re absolutely right. And I appreciate that. Now I’m always amazed at these groups that are out there that help people to become better version of themselves. Or even the best version of themselves. Why don’t you share with us? What was the idea that triggered this for you? That said, Hey. You know what this is definitely something that we should pursue
[00:02:57] Jenine Kenna: Well, I mean, like I said, we started as a fitness group because Heather and I had actually met in another mastermind online writing community that has kind of turned into a fitness thing and we lovingly call it the tone, Ty fitness golf. And after several months in it, we didn’t die, thankfully. But we realized it wasn’t the right space for us.
It wasn’t serving our needs. So we spent the last year, well, a little more than a year trying to create a community that would fit that bill that would serve those needs, that weren’t getting met. And that, like I said, evolved into so much more than fitness. We realized that there were so many. People out there.
And again, we serve mostly women. So I’m just going to keep saying women for the sake of simplicity. We realized that there were so many women out there who, were feeling lonely and disconnected, especially given the pandemic and everything. And they were just burning out, giving and doing and going and taking care of everybody else.
And they were always putting themselves last. And we just realized that we had the ability to help these women learn how to put themselves first and not feel guilty about it. Because that was the path that we had taken. And as we started our community and we saw it evolve, we realized that the women who were growing the most were the women who gave us the opportunity to serve them in that way, where we could teach them the lessons that we learned.
So then as we pivoted away from fitness that was the direction we just started taking because every woman that we helped and the handful of men that we’ve been able to help also, uh, just made us realize how much, how many people out there that need this. They need that community support and that guidance and that permission, even though nobody needs anybody else’s permission to do anything, but sometimes you just need to hear it.
They needed that permission that it’s okay to take care of themselves first.
[00:04:58] Cliff Duvernois: Nice. Yes. I love that. What are the things that I always think about is when you have a community is the fact that you have to constantly communicate with that community, right? You have to keep putting your message out there. And just because you’ve said the message wants you have to be able to come out and, reinforce that message.
So for, an example of this would be, you were just talking about how they don’t have to have permission, right. They can, they can just take the initiative and do these things themselves, but you have to keep repeating that over and over and over again. And so this leads into my next question, which is what made you decide that podcasting was going to be a good platform for you to use.
[00:05:36] Jenine Kenna: So there were multiple reasons. Well, let me backtrack a little bit. I’ve actually had several podcasts. The Kindhearted Badass show is my fourth podcast. I had done three previously and realized that they were all for the wrong reasons. I was chasing money more than anything when I had started those.
And, and there was no passion behind them because. I mean, everybody wants money, but it’s not really passion purpose. So as we grew this community, I realized like, how can we get to more and more people who aren’t already in our universe, who don’t already know me or Heather or somebody who knows us.
And I went back to my podcasting days and thought about that. And I was like, you know what? This is the way to reach a whole bunch of new people who’ve never heard about us. We can teach through the podcast, we can do little mini lessons that. Not the deep dive that we go into with our courses or our crew members, but on a, on a lighter level, I guess you could say we could touch on these topics and, and help people understand and get to know us and, give them the opportunity to learn about us and who we are and what Kindhearted Badass is.
You know, that people that might not have found this before.
[00:06:52] Cliff Duvernois: And I think you bring up a good point because there’s, there’s some times when I listen to some podcasts that are out there, it’s amazing. Like the level of deep dive that they’ll go into and these podcasts episodes, sometimes the last two or even three hours. And on more than one occasion, I’ve been listening to a podcast where I’ve just been like, I don’t even know what this podcast episodes about.
Right. Cause I started off and I knew what it was. Two and a half, two hours into it, two and a half hours into it. I can’t remember. So what you know from your standpoint, when you’re talking about making these types of episodes in here, is this something that’s really resonating with your ideal customer avatar?
[00:07:27] Jenine Kenna: I mean, I hope so, so I had actually started the Kindhearted Baddass show like a year ago. And then after about six or seven episodes, I just got exhausted of it. I couldn’t keep up with the work. I didn’t have the bandwidth. I am a work from home mom. I have a 14 year old son and a five-year-old daughter.
And, and have a wonderful husband, but I’m the primary caregiver for everybody. I’m in charge of running the household and making sure everybody has what they need. I also have ADHD and I am not at all tech savvy. So every podcast episode was taking me, I don’t know, four or five hours to do.
And it just wasn’t sustainable for me. I had that stereotypical pod fade of like, I think I had seven episodes and then just kind of stopped. And then like months later, I put out one episode and remembered why I stopped. But I’ve realized, Heather and I kept talking about it and I was talking to you and other people in the podcasting and entrepreneurial worlds and realize we were really missing the mark here.
Like this was something that really could help us grow our business and reach more people and help more people. Because social media just sucks plain and simple. Like we all know that it’s, it’s so complicated and algorithms and trying to keep up with it. And by the time you learn it, it changes.
And because we have the word badass in our name certain social media platforms, don’t like the word badass, which makes it really hard for us to grow our audience through those platforms. So that was really what made me turn back to podcasting
[00:08:58] Cliff Duvernois: from what you were talking about before, when you’re talking about women and kids and, trying to, be the, the relationship and stuff. And I was gonna say that probably for your ideal customer, they’re spending probably quite a lot of time driving around whether it’s taking the kids to school or to.
Band practice or there’s a doctor’s appointment, or even, I got to go to my job or whatever it is. So the podcast is great because that fits into that, that drive time that they have.
[00:09:24] Jenine Kenna: Yes exactly. I spent about five hours driving around in the car yesterday running errands and doing all the things. And that’s what I do. I listen to podcasts. Heather too. Like that is a major source of how we find new people to follow and learn from. So it just made sense that that would be if that’s where were hanging out, then that it made sense that that would be where our ideal avatar is hanging out.
[00:09:50] Cliff Duvernois: Exactly. And so I want to circle back on something that you were talking about. You admitted and I’ve been there myself. You’ve admitted that you actually went through this time of podfade. And it’s. Yeah, it’s not uncommon. It’s depending on what article you read at 60 to 80% of podcasts go through pod fade.
I know you mentioned before about bandwidth but what was it about, cause you, you mentioned something about five hours, right?
What was it about you internally that you think was, was taking, was forcing you to spend five hours working on a podcast episode?
[00:10:26] Jenine Kenna: The way my brain works. I don’t know if it’s necessarily all ADHD related, but I think that’s definitely plays a part in it. Like if I’m not automatically good at something it’s really hard for me to focus on it and continue paying attention to it, to take the time to get better at it.
So the tech stuff was a big part of it. The other big thing was I was spending way too much time. Outlining and researching and writing. And while all that’s important, like I was basically trying to fit a deep dive into a specific lesson into a 45 minute podcast episode. And I was spending
hours researching and writing and like scripting an entire episode and then rehearsing it to make sure that it would fit into the time slot I wanted it to fit in. So it wouldn’t be one of those two hour long episodes that somebody is like, what the hell are we even talking about anymore? So between the prep time and then the editing time, and then all the tech stuff after that I forget it.
I was using garage band. Totally not good for podcasting because it was the only thing I knew how to use with any kind of competence and I really wasn’t that competent at it. So yeah, just all, all of that stuff just added up and it, it just became exhausting and overwhelming and I didn’t enjoy it.
Life’s too short to spend that much time doing stuff that we don’t want to do if we don’t absolutely have to do it. And while I see the value and I want to do the podcasting, when I have started again, it wasn’t worth it. If it was going to take me 5, 6, 7 hours.
[00:11:54] Cliff Duvernois: It sounds to me that you were battling that internal perfection.
[00:11:59] Jenine Kenna: Yes. Yes. That intern, yes, definitely a perfectionist at heart in a lot of regards. And it was definitely coming out in the podcast.
[00:12:08] Cliff Duvernois: Yes. And at some point in time, you picked up podcasting again, you’ve relaunched your show. You know, you branded it like a season two, which is very clever.
How much time are you spending now on your episodes versus way back when?
[00:12:24] Jenine Kenna: Less than an hour.
[00:12:25] Cliff Duvernois: Awesome. What was that mind shift for you?
[00:12:27] Jenine Kenna: So a big part of it. Well, I full disclosure, everybody. Cliff is the one who helped me with all of this. Cliff, it was a big part of it was your guidance in reminding. I don’t have to deep dive every episode. And that every episode doesn’t need to be 45 minutes to an hour long. And that a lot of times, those 15, 20 minute snippets are way more valuable and that you can get in a couple of funny stories or, and the main points of your lesson into that 15 to 20 minute range.
You also helped me realize that scripting the whole thing out is not necessarily. The best use of my time or the best way to make it sound good, because I’m pretty sure that most people listening could tell that I was reading off of a page, which even though I wrote it, it just doesn’t sound as natural as just speaking from the heart.
So now I just do a quick outline. I’ll just write down the three or four bullet points that I want to make sure I hit. So I remember them and I just go. And honestly, the only reason it even takes me near an hour is because I oftentimes realize that I just said things out of order. I didn’t like how something came out and I’ll just delete it and start over again.
The other big part of it was releasing the need to control everything and do everything myself. Which, having been a solo printer for many, many years, that was really hard to do because I was very used to doing all the things myself. So hiring you to help me with all the backend stuff, the editing, the tech, the, uploading, downloading, putting it on the website, whatever, all those words that I don’t really understand.
You know, that, that was huge, cause I’m sure what was taking me three, four or five hours you’re getting done in half an hour.
[00:14:10] Cliff Duvernois: Yeah, it, this is actually one of the tenants of the Kindhearted Badass community. And that is taking imperfect action.
[00:14:19] Jenine Kenna: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. The podcast is not perfect by any means and I’m totally okay with that. I wasn’t a year ago. But, I’ve, I, part of learning how to teach people to live their best life and shift their mindset is doing it yourself. So I’ve been doing a lot of work to release that need for perfection or release that need for control and to do everything myself.
And, uh, I’m much happier for it and much more productive for it.
[00:14:47] Cliff Duvernois: I, I would definitely say so! And I think for a lot of people out there you hinted at this before, when you were talking about scripting it out, it’s, you can sit there and rehearse. All you want, and it’s still going to sound like you are reading it. And I know there’s a couple of podcasts out there that I have stumbled across in my time where I swear to God, the host has got to be reading it because it sounds like it.
And I think what a lot of people miss is that, like you were talking before about writing a bullet points, is that a lot of the content and the story is already inside of you. So when you, when you commit to writing it down on paper, you’re almost, it’s almost like you’re saying I would rather read this than just talk to you about it.
[00:15:26] Jenine Kenna: That’s right. Right. And I got to say since, since I switched up the format and started releasing new episodes this way I’ve had a couple of people say this and it’s the highest compliment they could give. They’re like, it’s like turning you on in the car and just hanging out with a friend and having a conversation over coffee or tea or wine or whatever.
Well, I guess not wine if you’re in the car, but. But I was like, yes, that’s exactly what I want it to feel like. I want it to feel like a conversation. Not me lecturing.
[00:15:55] Cliff Duvernois: Yeah. And I think that’s really where, when you’re having that conversation, when you’re conversing to people, that’s when your true self comes forward,
[00:16:01] Jenine Kenna: Definitely.
[00:16:02] Cliff Duvernois: And if we’re talking about that Know, Like, and Trust factor I think this is the reason why when I often say, podcasting is the ultimate relationship building tool, it’s when you just sit down and just talk, then people get to really know you and how you think.
And, even something as nuanced as your speech patterns really can make a difference.
[00:16:18] Jenine Kenna: Yeah, because I, I can write something to sound like the way I speak, but it doesn’t matter how, like you can read something that I wrote and be like, oh yeah, that’s Jenine’s voice. But if I’m reading it for you to listen to it’s just going to sound different than me speaking. It just, it just is.
[00:16:37] Cliff Duvernois: Yes. And you’re definitely right. So let me ask you this. You’ve been now podcasting, you’ve turned this corner here. You’ve gone from perfectionist to imperfect action. You’ve come back from podfade. Congratulations.
[00:16:49] Jenine Kenna: Thank you.
[00:16:50] Cliff Duvernois: What is the biggest lesson that you have learned from having a podcast ?
[00:16:54] Jenine Kenna: Hm. That is a very good question. The biggest lesson I’ve learned,
I guess it’s twofold that it’s perfectly okay and a good thing to ask for help. And that it is way more important to know who you can ask then figuring it out yourself. Like me, knowing that I could ask you for help was way more valuable than me trying to figure it out myself. Like even if I had, like, I mean, I was capable of doing it, just not very well.
[00:17:25] Cliff Duvernois: No problem.
[00:17:25] Jenine Kenna: So being willing to ask for help and knowing who to go to, I’d say those are my biggest lessons.
[00:17:32] Cliff Duvernois: Yeah. And actually you bring up a really good point. I was thinking about this, as you were saying this. It’s all about who not, how.
[00:17:38] Jenine Kenna: Yes. That’s the phrase I was looking for that was not coming into my head.
[00:17:42] Cliff Duvernois: Yes, And it’s, it’s very common for people when they get to a point where they get stuck. The first thing they do is bump over to YouTube and try to learn how to do it themselves rather than ask, Hey, do I know of someone who knows how to fix this? Because by the time you take into account, the fact that you have to find something that’s relevant and while the video doesn’t match the screen that I’m seeing.
And then I got alert, it’s very easy for you just to ping somebody and be like, Hey, I’m, I’m stuck here. I’m having a problem with this. You know how to solve it. Cause a lot of times. Like what you were talking about before, it’ll take you two to three hours to figure it out where somebody can do it for you in 30 seconds.
[00:18:15] Jenine Kenna: Yes, exactly.
[00:18:17] Cliff Duvernois: Yeah.
And I agree. And I actually would argue that that probably fits more into the, the perfectionist piece, like we were talking about before, about the need to control.
[00:18:25] Jenine Kenna: I was literally just thinking that same thing. I was like, actually, I guess that is the letting go of perfect. Taking that imperfect action and being okay with not being perfect all the time.
[00:18:35] Cliff Duvernois: Exactly. And what this has done is, and, and I have, I will harp on this for all of these episodes here, you really have just by listening to your podcasts there and the format that you’re doing it now. In my humble opinion, you’ve really hit your zone of genius. Being able, just to sit and talk without worrying about all of this other stuff that you have to do, like the scripting it out and the story.
And is it going to fit in the timeline and dah, dah, dah, dah, it’s almost like you’re focusing a lot more on your message then, on the script, on the time on all of these variables, that really don’t matter.
[00:19:09] Jenine Kenna: Yeah, absolutely. And one of the lessons that I really want to point out is that like, and this falls under the perfectionist umbrella also, you have to be willing to suck at something first. You have to be willing to understand that when you start out, you’re not going to be great at it. And that’s okay.
I think it’s still up there in, in the podcast world, like you can go back and listen to Tim Ferriss, his first podcast and he’s drunk,
[00:19:33] Cliff Duvernois: Oh, my God.
[00:19:34] Jenine Kenna: but it’s hilarious because now, I mean, he’s, he’s Tim freaking Ferris, you know, but back then he was like, all right, well, this is, I’m going to suck at this and that’s okay.
And I’m not going to let it hold me back. You don’t have to live. The fear of not being good at something, hold you back. You can suck at something and keep moving forward and just get better and better at it.
[00:19:54] Cliff Duvernois: Exactly. Yes. And for the story that Jenine is referencing, a lot of us podcasters know what well. Tim Ferriss obviously has the number one rated podcast in iTunes, most downloaded episodes ever. And there was a point in time before Tim Ferris, where, his friends are trying to convince them to do a podcast and he didn’t want to do it.
And so the only way he agreed to do it was to get. So he drunk podcasts. That is way up there. And after a few episodes, he was like, you know, I’m kinda digging this, but you’re right. Janine, you go back and you listen to those first episodes there of anybody of any podcast whatsoever. And it’s literally like people are trying to get the feel for it.
Right. And talking to that microphone and what am I going to be really talking about here and stuff. You know, that’s, there’s a very good point. It’s, when you start letting go of. Have so much control. It’s almost like you have to start trusting yourself more.
[00:20:45] Jenine Kenna: Yes, exactly. Like I can totally let the fear of negative reviews or trolls or. Just sounding like an idiot, hold me back, but I’ve, I just refused not to, I just won’t do that. That’s not who I am. That is not what a Kindhearted Badass does. And if I’m going to teach other people how to do this, then I have to model it.
And to me actually, it just dawned on me as I’m saying it that’s a big part of what this podcast is. The Kindhearted Badass show is me showing my clients, my members, how I’m practicing what I preach on. I’m doing it. I’m living that life and I’m taking imperfect action and I’m not afraid to be bad at something first while I learn it and figure it out.
And I’m not afraid to ask for help when I, when I need it. And I don’t have to try to do everything all by myself all the time.
[00:21:35] Cliff Duvernois: Yes. And I, I agree with that. And it was, it had just made me think that the number of times where I’m talking to a potential client or something, and they’re for whatever reason, another waiting for that perfect moment, that perfect time, making sure that everything is right and perfect. And we keep saying to them, you need to take imperfect action.
Right? You have to, you have to take action. And then we turned around and don’t practice that in our own business. Right.
[00:21:58] Jenine Kenna: Right. Exactly.
[00:22:00] Cliff Duvernois: Yes. All right, Jenine. So if anybody in our audience wants to, look up to the Kindhearted Badass group what’s the best way for them to do that.
[00:22:09] Jenine Kenna: All right. So there’s two ways you can go to kindhearted badass dot com, where we have our blog, and you can find episodes of Kindhearted Badass show you. We have some free downloads on there for you. That’s also where you’ll find information about our course offerings. You can also follow us. Free Facebook group that is kindhearted Badass community.
The core group is private and that is like I said, only for our paid members who have gone through our courses. Because that does come with a significant opportunities for small group coaching and things like that. That’s. Higher level membership community, but you can follow us for free and start getting the lessons for free through the podcast.
And through that Facebook group and anybody who wants to get to know me better, they can find me on Facebook. That’s Facebook and Instagram. That’s the best places. And my name is spelled Jenine J E N I N E, because nobody ever spells it right.
[00:23:01] Cliff Duvernois: Awesome. And for our audience, we will have all of those links down in the show notes below. Jenine thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule and chatting with us.
[00:23:10] Jenine Kenna: Cliff. Thank you so much for having me. This was so fun.