Brendan Burns is a High-Performance Strategist, CEO, Top Podcast Host and former Wall Street Executive who transforms individuals and companies to maximize their potential in business and life. For over a decade, he has advised some of the world’s most recognized brands—from Fortune 100 companies, investment banks, top law firms and professional sports teams, to C-level executives, billionaires, pro NFL/MLB athletes, celebrities and politicians from over 70 countries on 6 continents. With 3 Ivy League degrees, Brendan is Cornell University’s first-ever student to obtain both a law degree from Cornell Law School and MBA from Cornell’s Johnson School in 3 years total. Brendan’s career began on Wall Street as an Investment Banker at Lazard Freres and then a Partner and #2 at Hedge Fund Steamboat Capital in New York. In pursuit of a deeper passion, Brendan left Wall Street to pursue his calling as an entrepreneur and coach. Over time he developed a 360-degree business & life framework, which helped skyrocket him into becoming one of the most sought-after high-performance strategists. Brendan is now the CEO of Burns International Inc., a rapidly growing professional coaching & consulting company that caters to those wanting an extraordinary path forward. Under his leadership as CEO, the company provides customized engagements, advisory services, group trainings, seminars and live events. Brendan also hosts the “The Brendan Burns Show,” an Apple Top 100 Podcast for personal development, business coaching, life transformation, and high-performance growth. Hundreds of thousands have tuned in to hear his candid interviews with an eclectic guest list—from actor Matthew McConaughey to Jack Canfield and other elite coaches, executives, and self-made millionaires & billionaires.

Topics we covered:

  • The gradual transition from rock bottom to living his dream life with the help of podcasting
  • The main reasons why people are having a hard time with podcasting what they should do instead
  • Unlocking once in a lifetime experiences through podcasting

This episode is brought to you by “Podcast Accelerator Challenge“. I’ve been using podcasting as a powerful business growing tool for years. Nothing is more powerful than podcasting for help businesses grow. If you’re tired of playing roulette with your ad dollars and frustrated with algorithms constantly changing on social media platforms, the only thing that has changed about podcasting is the popularity of the platform.

If you’re a business owner and you want to grow your business but you’re not sure where to start, then join the FREE 5-Day Podcast Accelerator Challenge“. Within 5 days, you’ll go from no podcast to having a full realized podcast with built in strategies to help use this tool for your business.

Select Links from the Episode:

Show Notes:

  • Helping himself out of rock bottom (02:24)
  • From inspiration to real life: balancing a coaching business and travel (03:44)
  • How Brendan maximized his free travel, live webinars, and the start of Facebook ads to skyrocket his online presence and business (04:20)
  • What happened when Brendan exponentially increased his budget for ads (06:10)
  • How getting fired was the best thing to happen for his podcast (08:09)
  • A podcast origin story: a few drinks with a friend, a mic from Amazon, and a couple of Googled articles later…(08:50)
  • Why your first podcast episode will be horrible, but that’s okay (10:16)
  • Why the size of your audience doesn’t determine the potential impact you can have in people’s lives (11:35)
  • How his grandfather went from speaking to a small crowd to working with former President Ronald Reagan as the deputy attorney general of the United States (12:42)
  • The struggle of building a podcast before Anchor or Libsyn existed (14:13)
  • The F-word that will keep your podcast going (14:33)
  • Why podcasting will always be an important part of Brendan’s life (14:57)
  • What podcasting has done for his coaching business despite his non-traditional approach to his show (16:07)
  • How his podcast has served as a validation tool for his business (18:16)
  • Conquering imposter syndrome and catapulting your self-confidence with podcasting (18:34)
  • How external help and community helped him fight an uphill battle (20:08)
  • Why action and self-efficacy is the secret to having a successful podcast (21:00)
  • Why comparison is a moot point when it comes to podcasting (23:00)
  • The surprising necessity of having a mediocre start to your podcast (26:38)
  • One of the worst measures of your podcast’s success: perfectionism (28:15)
  • Focusing on personal development in order to combat imposter syndrome (29:25)
  • The detrimental effect of being engrossed on the wrong things such as the mic you use instead of the actual value your podcast can provide (31:38)
  • Why mindset is ultimately what determines your success in business and podcasting (32:57)


Cliff Duvernois: Today’s episode is brought to you by podcast pipeline. We’ll take care of all your podcast production so you can focus on your business. Visit us at 

Cliff Duvernois: Hey, there world changers and welcome to another episode of Entrepreneurs on Podcasting. Now today’s guest is a high performance strategist, keynote speaker podcast, host, and a. Wall street executive who transforms individuals and companies to maximize their potential in business and in life for nearly a decade, he has advised some of the world’s most recognized brands from fortune 100 companies, investment banks, top and professional sports teams to C level executives, billion dollar entrepreneurs, pro NFL, MLB athletes and politicians from over 60 countries on six continents. 

Cliff Duvernois: His specialty innovative strategies, tools, and techniques that equip and empower people to change the trajectory of their lives. Please welcome to the show, the host of the number one podcast for personal development, business, coaching life transformation, the host of the Brendan Burns show.

Cliff Duvernois: Brendan Burns. Brendan, how are you?

Brendan Burns: Cliff. Thanks so much. I love that intro. I need to get a client on Antarctica so we can say I’ve coached people on all seven continents. 

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah, I was, well, it kinda made me check a little bit about the politicians on 60 countries, but then when you said six continents, I was like, that’s actually pretty impressive.

Brendan Burns: I guess if anyone’s listening that lives in Antarctica any scientists hit me up. So I can say all seven continents. 

Cliff Duvernois: Nice. And for those scientists freezing right now, we’ll have the links of the show notes down below. Exactly, exactly. So I know I kinda hit on this in the intro, but why don’t you tell us a little bit more, what your business is and how you got started at it?

Brendan Burns: I grew up on Long Island. Parents are both lawyers went to Cornell, fully intend to intended to work on wall street, being an investment banker. And I thought that was it live in New York city, do my whole life there. And I like to tell people I had a quarter life crisis. When, um, my girlfriend that I was living with getting ready to get married, threw me out.

Brendan Burns: My job, I got fired from investment banking and my brother got sick and he’s okay now. But all these things happen right at the same time. And it pushed me to the Barnes and noble self-help section. And that’s what got me into understanding my past of being exposed to different forms of abuse. Having all these issues with anger, depression, pain, addiction.

Brendan Burns: And that all happened very quickly. And I was very open to getting help and support because I wanted a different life path forward. So all this personal development was really working on me. I fell in love with Tony Robbins and Jack Canfield and all these different experiences and programs. And I got to a 0.1 day, where separately from this crisis, I like to call it.

Brendan Burns: I also, during law school read a book called the four hour workweek, which I’m sure a lot of your listeners know. And I love that idea of being my own boss, working remotely, traveling a lot. And so in 2016 it just hit me like now’s the time to do business. And I had wanted to start my own hedge fund or my own company of some kind.

Brendan Burns: But then I said, let me combine coaching with this Tim Ferris entrepreneurial lifestyle. And so I put it all together and I love Tim’s show so much. It inspired me to do solo travel and credit card point hacking. Staying in hostels and Airbnbs. And so that was what inspired me to do the podcast initially in my own coaching business part-time 2016 and then really stepping into it 2017, 2018. 

Cliff Duvernois: So I want to take step back and just try to connect the dots here. Cause you’ve worked with some pretty big companies. How do you start getting like big clients? What was your connection to them? How did you get through the door?

Brendan Burns: Yeah. It’s, it’s funny. You asked that. So I left finance officially at the end of 2016, and I did a lot of travel in 2017. I went all over the world. For those entrepreneurs and coaches who want to make more money and have more clients like enjoy the downtime before you scale your company, because those are actually great times, even though there was uncertainty and a lot less money coming in.

Brendan Burns: I had a lot more time flexibility. And so I was all over the world. I was in Japan and I remember being in Myanmar. Some people notice Burma and getting an email that the Chattanooga, Tennessee tourism board saw my Instagram account and wanted me to come there for a free influencer trip. And I was just bouncing all over the country, having so much fun. All over the world. And I got back to New York in like mid 2017. And Facebook ad costs were very low. Online courses were very popular and profitable. And so even though I wanted to go deeper and do more of the life and business coaching, I had built this Instagram account pretty big, tens of thousands of followers.

Brendan Burns: I was getting free travel hotels, getting clients. And so I created a group program around it called Mastering Instagram which is no longer for sale because Instagram has changed so much. And I’m much more of a LinkedIn guy now. But I started this course and I use Facebook ads to promote it. So I had the funniest ads of me like walking around New York city, uh, you know, on city bikes and all that stuff promoting of course, and the ads were very profitable.

Brendan Burns: I would basically run a Facebook ad to a live webinar that I would host once a week which was a great life experience too, in public speaking and presentation every Tuesday at 7:00 PM Eastern. I would run one of these webinars on it was how to go from zero to 20 K Instagram followers and turn your followers into dollars.

Brendan Burns: And if you stay until the end, you’ll get a free script on how to get free travel and hotels using your Instagram account. And it was all legit and it was great. So I started ramping ad spend. I remember the story was my Facebook ad manager at the time. Roxanne said, okay, Brendan, I want you to spend a hundred bucks a day on ads.

Brendan Burns: You got this course, you got this webinar. It was like a hundred dollars. At the time, my rent was 1825 a month. I had moved from Chelsea Manhattan to Murray hill, which is a much less expensive place to save money on rent. And she’s telling me to spend about $3,000 a month on ads. And I’m like, are you crazy more than double my rent? And she was like, look, you spent a thousand on the last webinar and this is what happens. So just to keep doing it. And so long story short, I really understood the concept of ROI or ROAS as some people call it, return on ads. And so I started spending more money and it got to a point where I was actually spending, tens of thousands of dollars a month on ads.

Brendan Burns: And that was really what opened the door for my brand to some people started seeing my ads and taking my course. Like a guy who played in the NFL and like Jesse Itzler and you know, these types of people. So one of the things that I think also Tony Robbins for example, did really well, was his infomercials in the eighties, even if they were only break-even think about all that publicity you get as a so-called expert in your field.

Brendan Burns: So I’m a big fan of creating breakeven funnels and getting your name and word out there as an expert to more people. Because spending all that money on ads got me in the Facebook feed of probably millions of people. And then some, then some people went through the program, took the course, had the positive, positive experiences to then reach out to me personally.

Brendan Burns: And that helped create some of these engagements. 

Cliff Duvernois: Wow. That’s absolutely wonderful. If you’re going out, you’re having this, you know, gangbuster success, you know, you’re spending $10,000 a month with Facebook ads. Your business is going really well. I know you kind of mentioned this before, but how did you make that jump from Facebook ads to podcasting?

Brendan Burns: So they kind of happened at the same time. I would say the, the podcast actually started before the Facebook ad. So ended 2016. getting ready to leave wall street. And, and it’s funny story, because on Thanksgiving 2016, my friend said, when are you going to leave and go do coaching and podcasting full-time. And I told him, yeah. in about two more years. 

Brendan Burns: I’m just going to keep saving my money and doing it on the weekends. And that Monday I got fired. But just like the best thing that ever happened to me, because it created all this white space and healthy fear lit a fire under me to really do this. So the podcast was probably up and running before the coaching business and the Facebook ads.

Brendan Burns: And it’s just so funny seeing the evolution of my show because it was, you know, I remember going out for a drink with one of my friends in New York City. And in 2016 and she did something with the playbills for the New York city theater, like Broadway shows, and she had a really cool job. She would basically interview the people who were in these shows, these Broadway actors, and then write up the articles and have a great idea for a podcast.

Brendan Burns: And I had my idea for podcasts. And so we’re out for drinks. And I said, Hey, it’s Friday by Monday morning, let’s have live podcasts. And all that required, I think was registering for a podcast and doing episode one. And I did it, you know, I Googled the articles, how to set it up. I didn’t, there was no, and I didn’t use anchor FM.

Brendan Burns: There’s no Anchor or Spotify, none of this stuff that this is a little bit trickier. I had to use feed burner and read these how to articles. But I set it up and I had some mic that I ordered on Amazon, which I’ve graduated, probably five levels of microphones by now, but I had some, you know, intro mic and I just did it.

Brendan Burns: And that was the B I didn’t have a content calendar. I didn’t have a schedule for pacing. I didn’t had no how to reach out and get high level guests or any of that. The thing that I’m really glad that I did was I just did it. Because I’ve coached a lot of people, including helping coach some people informally, I don’t have like a group for podcasters, like you might.

Brendan Burns: But I, what I did was I I’ve coached people over the years who have wanted to start their own podcast. And what I’ve noticed is a lot of people really try to over plan it, overthink it, make it perfect before they launch. And it’s so funny because my early episodes, I think they’re horrible, but I leave them up so people can see the progress.

Brendan Burns: And whenever I tell people, don’t listen to episode one, they all go back and do it. So. Yeah.

Brendan Burns: buyer beware if you want to go back. But I think you’ll see that I just stepped into the arena and I figured a lot of it out as I went.

Cliff Duvernois: It’s worthwhile to point out there that just getting started as the most important thing, because once you get started, you can always come back and make incremental improvements as you go. So it’s, it’s almost like. So right now I’m taking an Instagram reels challenge just for personal gratification and everyday.

Cliff Duvernois: I’m saying, what can I do? One more thing to just get better at this. And podcasts seen is the exact same way. And I think what it is, a lot of people get like Larry King or Oprah Winfrey stuck in their head and be like, I have to produce at that level. Right. If I don’t have that level quality in a show, nobody’s going to listen.

Cliff Duvernois: Uh, but that’s not true. Cause your mom is always going to listen. Your friends are going to listen, but you know what more importantly your audience is finally going to show up. They’re going to find your show and they’re going to listen to what you have.

Brendan Burns: Hundred percent and don’t discount the the impact that even if you only have 10 people listening to your podcast, it’s still 10 people whose lives you can change. And for example, I love to volunteer for addiction related things. And so I was speaking last night to a group in San Diego area. And, uh, I don’t know what was there, 30, 40 people in the room, max.

Brendan Burns: And so it’s not that many people, but think about the ripple effect of one guy comes up to me after, Hey, can we meet for coffee? Hey, I’m struggling with addiction. Absolutely. Yes, let’s do it this weekend. So I think a lot of people sometimes get too caught up in the numbers and comparing themselves to other people and other shows. The reality is it doesn’t take a lot of people to really make an impact and holding back your gift and not doing the show is the bigger failure in my opinion. 

Cliff Duvernois: I agree with that because like, you were talking about four out of those 10 people that are listening, you don’t know who they. And there could be somebody that’s found your podcast, listening to it and likes it. That belongs to a fortune 100 company that says, you know what? I’d really love to have this guy come in and talk about topic X, whatever that might be.

Brendan Burns: Yeah. And it’s really funny because my grandfather who passed away almost 10 years ago now was the deputy attorney general of the United States. So he had a pretty big, um, political position. And he, I didn’t know this until recently. He has a book called Preparing to be Lucky, which I have in my house.

Brendan Burns: And I was reading it a few months ago and apparently he was giving some talk to some groups and some guy in the last row. I felt that this guy or Arnie Burns had a really important thing to say and call the guy who called a guy called a guy who was Ronald Reagan and said, we got to bring this guy down to Washington. 

Brendan Burns: So you never know. And my grandpa was a complete, nobody may me rest in peace. Like no one knew who he was. He was a small-time lawyer in New York city self-made first-generation college, or maybe not for sure, like his grandparents, I think came from Europe. So very humble beginnings.

Brendan Burns: We’re not like, fancy lineages or anything. And he was just giving, he was putting himself out there or as he would say, preparing himself to be.

Brendan Burns: lucky. And then that happened. And so if you don’t speak up, you don’t do the show. You don’t do what you’re supposed to. Then you miss out on those opportunities. 

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah, I agree. And that’s all fine. I love that. Prepare yourself to be Lucky. When you got into podcasting, Tim Ferris inspired you, you’re working with your friend to get the, get the live podcast going. Why, what was your biggest struggle when it came to podcasting when you were first getting into it?

Brendan Burns: Oh man, that’s a good question. Um, I mean, I feel like the tech was kind of frustrating because this feed burner thing made no sense to me. And I remember when Anchor.FM came out some in Libsyn and got more popular and all these platforms came out that made it a lot easier to kind of organize everything. 

Cliff Duvernois: Right.

Brendan Burns: I can’t say I’ve had a ton of challenges because I never put too much, like worry into the process. I just said, I’m going to just have fun with. So I, I, if you listen, I don’t really edit my shows that much. I don’t have a lot of post-production audio engineering you know, maybe getting guests on, but I’ve really had a lot of success with that.

Brendan Burns: And I’ve had a lot of fun with that too. I’ve had some really cool people on the show that I don’t think I would ever. reasons why my podcast is such a important and special part of my life is because it’s opened the door to engage with certain people that I would never be able to do. You know, if I was just, walking down the street, doing minding my own business.

Brendan Burns: So I would say maybe some of the tech but yeah, I’ve just, I’ve really loved. It. It’s been great. I would say maybe one other area is if there is a way to use. Advert, like I’ve had to build funnels to advertise my show and build landing pages and create giveaways and run ads. And if there was a way I could just say like here’s money to get me more downloads and I don’t want to just buy downloads.

Brendan Burns: I want to market my show to the Right.

Brendan Burns: type of people and get it in front. That would be a solution I’ve talked to different ads managers who claim to be able to do that. But for the most part, it’s, it’s really been a lot of fun and I haven’t put a lot of pressure on it. And granted it’s not my main money maker.

Brendan Burns: Like I make a lot more. Money with my one-on-one and group coaching offers. So it’s always easier to be comfortable and have fun with something when there’s not pressure to earn off of it, you know? But yeah, that’s what I would say. 

Cliff Duvernois: Are you getting a lot of business from your podcast near one-on-one coaching group?

Brendan Burns: So I’m not, not traditionally the way that a lot of podcasters do. Like one of my friends, he’s a great guy, Matt Dobschuetz,, who hosts Pornfree radio. He, his, everything is around helping men quit pornography. And so I think that when your niche is really clear and specific like that, and you build up an audience, then you can just easily funnel people right into your program, which he had. 

Brendan Burns: I right now, one of our group programs, that’s really taking up the majority of our time in a good way. And we’re making a lot of money and impact is we have a program for coaches and consultants and podcasts would probably fit into that mix, but really helping coaches build their business up. But I’m so passionate about so many different things that my podcast is not like Coaches Corner or Grow Your Coaching Practice or zero to a hundred K a month for coaches.

Brendan Burns: I kind of use the podcast much more broadly to talk about a lot of different things and interview a lot of different types of people. So the, the short answer is no, but the long answer is that having some of the people that I’ve had on the show, some of the athletes, some of the actors and celebrities, it gives me a lot of credibility.

Brendan Burns: And I use that content on my home pages and on all my social media profiles so that when I reach out to someone. Or they reach out to me, it’s a greet validation or a piece of PR that I can leverage when I’m talking to someone and they say, oh wow, this guy interviewed this person. Or look at this guy’s podcast.

Brendan Burns: He’s legit. And so for that reason, it’s been really helpful. You know, in the sales process and in the marketing process. 

Cliff Duvernois: Nice. I’m glad you bring it up because having the podcast, having your own media company out there. And like you were talking about like, even the very people that you interview goes a long ways to establishing you as an expert in that field. More importantly, it, it gives them, it gives a real perception that you’re a somebody, right?

Cliff Duvernois: Cause you’ve had all these big, you know, these, these names on your podcast, you actually have a podcast, which I find just when you say that alone to people just elevates the conversation. You sit there and say, oh yeah, I’ve got a podcast. Really? What your broadcast about what are you talking?

Brendan Burns: Totally. Yeah, it’s, it’s a validation tool. It’s kind of a badge of honor. I’ve figured out how to do this. I’ve spent time building something out that I’m proud of and absolutely having certain types of people on the show. And some of these authors and people have written these books behind me and some of these celebrity.

Brendan Burns: It’s really been fun because it’s pushed me way out of my comfort zone, especially when I was first starting to interview some of these bigger names. Oh my God, who am I? And it made me face imposter syndrome deserving, complex, worth confidence issues. And then as I was able to overcome them, not only did it build my brand, but also built my inner skillset of pushing myself to new Heights, learning how to believe in myself, better working through fears and other issues that I had to work through.

Brendan Burns: So I can now coach people on that too, because. When we’re coaching coaches, for example, a lot of it is imposter syndrome. Who am I, what value can I add? How can I really charge for this? And I’ve had to walk through that myself, even with the podcast to say, okay, someone who’s day rate or to come do a public speaking event could be 50 or a hundred thousand dollars.

Brendan Burns: They’re going to come them, give me an hour of time for free. And who am I, this deserve that. And, but, you know, it’s such a useful experience and it’s been great. I love it. It’s also, you know, I have a two bedroom house in San Diego and one of my rooms is a podcast studio and I have cameras and audio silencers, all these things.

Brendan Burns: It’s so much fun just over the years, building it up and developing it and having a lot of fun with it. 

Cliff Duvernois: Sure. And that’s really great. And one of the things I do want to circle back and chat with you on for a couple of minutes is, when you’re talking about, when you start out, you get a big name on your podcast and you run up against imposter syndrome. For our audience who may be facing that same thing, how did you overcome your imposter syndrome and help yourself move?

Brendan Burns: A lot of it was facing that inner the inner demons and doing spiritual, personal development, getting coaching, surrounding myself with uplifting people, being part of very loving, supportive community that they had similar practices and saw their value and then were able to help uplift me and help me see it for myself. 

Brendan Burns: Getting coaching from very confident people who really believe in themselves and are not afraid to charge me lots of money and modeling that to me. And when I’m saying, Hey dude, my I’m paying you four grand a month, or I’m paying y’all this is more than my mortgage. And for them to look me in the eye and smile and say we’re worth every penny and mean it and really deliver that value has been a powerful experience for me. 

Brendan Burns: And then I think the last thing is actually stepping into the arena and just do. You know, I think doing it over and over again, as you’re working on yourself, like about a year and two months ago, I had a big actor on my podcast, for example, and I was definitely nervous and not fully confident. And then last year, maybe like four or five months ago, I had layered Hamilton on the surface. And just noticeably more comfortable, confident, believing in myself, his wife called me on the cell phone before, oh, can we shift it around? And I’m like, yo, what’s up guys? Like super confident. Like I belong here. I deserve this. And then ultimately like really looking in the mirror and saying, why wouldn’t I deserve this?

Brendan Burns: And I want everyone to do that too. I’m hardworking. I ask good questions. I am well-prepared. I have spent a lot of time and energy building up my show. It’s going to get them PR and press, and it’s going to be a fun experience for everyone involved. You know, what, like, why should I describe myself as not worthy of this experience?

Brendan Burns: When, if I just come in with that worthiness, it’s so much more fun and engaging and positive for everyone. 

Cliff Duvernois: Right. And, and what you’re talking about, there is something I read online the other day, and I took a screenshot of it because to me it was so powerful. When somebody, you know, when somebody says, why would they be on my podcast? Who am I? That’s like a very disempowering question.

Cliff Duvernois: That you’re asking, you know, like if you say to yourself, oh, well, why would I even try? It’s not going to work. You’re you’re asking yourself a very disempowering question when you should be turning that question around and say, well, why wouldn’t they be on my podcast? 

Brendan Burns: Yeah. I mean, it’s a minds. It’s just mindset. Like

Cliff Duvernois: mindset.

Brendan Burns: why, why wouldn’t they be? Why, why wouldn’t people listen to me? Why wouldn’t someone want coaching from me? And then genuinely building the skills to deliver on it, but also training your mind to say, yeah, of course, You know, I’m worth it. I have lots to offer and everyone does.

Brendan Burns: It’s not an either or game where Cliff, you deserve to have all the cool people on your show, but I don’t 

Cliff Duvernois: Right.

Brendan Burns: Everyone has a unique skill. And I think sometimes people get caught up in comparing their skills to someone else’s skills and hoping that they can be like someone else. But the reality is I press it and say, okay, this is Miley and I want to do it well, and I can, and I deserve it.

Brendan Burns: And so to you, and so does everyone else and just saying, it’s not all big competition to who has the most downloads because Joe Rogan’s going to look down and smile and laugh at all of us, but it’s saying, you know, what’s his show fulfilling. What’s your show. Your show obviously inspires people to become amazing podcasters from what I know so far. My show is very different and we can all be successful together. We all deserve good and different things. 

Cliff Duvernois: Because really at the end of the day, I think whether it’s from an entertainment standpoint or a mindset standpoint, podcast standpoint, what we’re all focused on is just trying to. Just trying to serve those we’ve been, we’ve been called to serve, you know, at the highest level and be relevant to, to really help them and have a positive impact on what it is that they’re doing.

Cliff Duvernois: And I humbly believe that podcasting’s like probably the best tool out there to make that happen.

Brendan Burns: I think it’s also, it’s just such a great way to get access to people outside of your network and it adds value to them and they typically enjoy it when you show up and have fun and are well-prepared, but I’ve been able to connect with some really cool people, not even just, oh, they’re famous. Like people obscure people, friends.

Brendan Burns: Good, go deeper. It’s just, it’s been so much fun. I, I love podcasting. 

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah, it’s been absolutely awesome. What I would like to do is I’d like, just to take a second for, you know, the entrepreneur out there who maybe they’ve got a podcast and they’re struggling. You know, what would be a piece of advice or a couple of pieces of advice that you would give them.

Brendan Burns: Well, it would help me if you could also share where do you think, or where are you seeing entrepreneurs mostly struggling with their podcast? 

Cliff Duvernois: So from where I sit from, the people that I’ve worked with, the biggest challenge is mindset, right? And so there’s a couple of different standpoints from that. So first off it’s a need to be perfect. You know, like I got to have a perfect episode. Like we were talking before, like somebody is listening to Larry King or they listen to Tim Ferris and they think that is the bar.

Cliff Duvernois: They have to hit the first time out of the gate. And then the second thing of course is, battling the, the imposter syndrome. Whether they’re reaching out to people to be on the show or even just producing a solo episode. Like, why should I even put something out? Nobody even knows I exist.

Cliff Duvernois: Nobody’s even recognizing that I’m here. So in my mind, those two feed into a lot of things, right? Perfection is a means they’re spending 10 to 12 hours on the 30 minute podcast episode. Right. And they quickly realize after maybe five or 10 episodes that that’s not sustainable. So the podcast goes into podfade.

Cliff Duvernois: They don’t record any content because I think everything that they have to say is junk and, you know, who’s, you know, who’s going to listen to it by then. They’ve already spent $4,500 on equipment because some guy in YouTube told them, this is what you need to have a successful podcast, but they’re not recording anything.

Cliff Duvernois: And so they wind up selling it a few months later because their spouse got really angry at them and they’re selling it for like a third of the price. From my standpoint, those are like the two, well, actually mindset. You know is the big thing, but those are the two things that would fall underneath of that.

Cliff Duvernois: So that’s from where I’m sitting from, the people that I’m working with, the dealing with those are the big things right there.

Brendan Burns: Yeah. One of my favorite quotes is from Reed Hoffman, who is the one of the founders of LinkedIn. And he says, if you are not embarrassed by the first version of your product, you’ve launched too late. 

Cliff Duvernois: Oh, love that.

Brendan Burns: and, and that’s exactly how I feel about my podcast. If you go back and you listen to episode one, and I’m either wearing apple headphones, or I’m using the stereo input from my Mac book with, it’s just like the worst thing you can do from an audio quality perspective, but it’s not even the audio.

Brendan Burns: It’s my tonality, my confidence, my rapport with my guests, all of these. It’s just been totally transformational. But even at that.

Brendan Burns: point back then it was still, I was adding value. So I always tell people don’t overthink. You don’t need to be perfect. I don’t like perfect. I actually used to do these episodes where I would stop and I’d pause the recording to have a drink of water, or I would talk too fast or wouldn’t share anything personally about myself.

Brendan Burns: And those episodes are kind of boring. They’re they’re robotic. There’s no personality. There’s no fun. There’s no energy. I mean, look at Howard stern. You know, the guys, I mean, he’s not podcast, but if you called him a podcast, it would either him or Rogan, number one downloads in the world. And he’s sitting there with Robin just talking and complaining and chatting.

Brendan Burns: And that is the furthest thing from perfect I’ve ever seen, but it’s also millions and millions of people are loyal. They’ll listen to it. If he goes any whatever platform they’ll, most of these people will go with it, pay whatever, and just. So I think perfection is a horrible way to measure success in business, in a podcast and anything it’s like, these people, first of all, why are you trying to be perfect because perfect shows are not popular, Right. Like if you want more downloads, you want a bigger audience. You want a better show. You want more impact, you want more reach, I would definitely not try to be perfect because I don’t like listening to perfect podcast. I don’t think that even exists. And why would you want to make it perfect? You want it to be imperfect and you want the Right.

Brendan Burns: types of people.

Brendan Burns: Like it, there’s the other quote from Tim Ferriss, which is if you try to make a podcast or a product that everyone will like, no one will like it, which is true too. I show is not. everyone. There are a lot of people who may not want to hear all the stuff about personal development. I talk about masculine and feminine energy, which can be offensive to people.

Brendan Burns: I talk about how I quit pornography, which can be offensive to people if people disagree with that lifestyle choice of quitting that. You know, I’m not trying to get everyone to like my show. I’m just trying to help. Whoever wants to listen to this and is going to find value to continue to engage with it.

Brendan Burns: So I don’t think perfection should be your goal. And then as far as the imposter syndrome, that kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier. Really, learning how to work on your confidence and stepping into that ownership and doing the personal development, getting coaching around that, surrounding yourself, with confident people to help you realize.

Brendan Burns: I mean, no, one’s an imposter. It’s just really, I mean, unless you’re lying and being deceitful obviously. But if you’re being honest and authentic to yourself and being truthful and trying to step in and do something good. You know, you’re not an imposter. And so it’s just, how do I come to that conclusion?

Brendan Burns: How do I see the truth about who I really am and what are the different ways I can do that? It’s obviously the different things that I’ve shared so far today. 

Cliff Duvernois: I’ve taken copious notes because I love this and you’re right. And it seems to me that probably so in a couple things come to mind when I, when you say the term, like the perfect podcast, right? Cause I’ve listened to a few podcasts out there that have been perfect.

Cliff Duvernois: And I have to wonder if these people, if this isn’t what they just do full time. All right. They will spend all week working on a single podcast episode because really that’s, their business model is how many downloads can I get and what kind of sponsors can I get? Right. That’s usually when I see like high production value going into a podcasting. But for somebody that’s just using a podcast like you were talking about before, about building relationships and really building that strong sense of community, authenticity trumps everything.

Brendan Burns: Yeah.

Brendan Burns: I mean, and, but the other thing too is I can appreciate what you’re saying. I have friends, I know people who their podcast is a significant earner or they needed to be, or want it to be. And so it’s definitely a different approach than how I look at it. But if you look at, for example, my coaching business, which is, I would say very similar to someone’s podcast business, where there’s need desire, want to monetize, grow and scale.

Brendan Burns: You know, there’s a lot of different things that go into it. It’s, it’s investing in it. It’s spending enough time on it. It’s knowing when to set limits and boundaries around it, though. It’s getting mentorship from people who have done what you’ve want to do. So for example, finding people who have certain sponsors, certain number of downloads, And really taking honest looks at how you can improve, surveying your audience.

Brendan Burns: You know, there’s a lot of different things. I would say one thing, you know, when I’m talking about coaching, for example, I think a lot of people care about the wrong things. So sometimes they’ll try to get a hundred certifications as opposed to just going out and learning how to get clients and learning marketing means.

Brendan Burns: And so I would imagine that with podcasting, there might be this big emphasis on audio quality and equipment and the microphone, the perfect mic as opposed to really just like creating a valuable experience, like either entertainment or education or both or value and caring more about the content and the experience, as opposed to some of these frameworks and bells and whistles that don’t mean as much. 

Cliff Duvernois: Right. And then again, it really boils down to, especially when it comes to podcasting. It’s more important just to get your message out. And started producing your message out there, whether you’re using, you know, your apple earbuds to, to record, or if you dropped, $1,500 on a microphone somewhere or something, but it’s just, it’s really critical that you make sure that you get your message out to the people and get them to start consuming it, interacting with your brand, things like that.

Cliff Duvernois: Anyways, Thank you for that. I love talking about mindset conversations. That’s that’s really brilliant. I love that.

Brendan Burns: Well, it’s funny. Cause I asked you, I said, what’s the biggest thing people struggle with with podcasts. You said mindset and it’s true for anything. You know, like I said, I coached a lot of coaches and we can talk about sales. We can talk about marketing. We can talk about pricing, your program, all these things.

Brendan Burns: But in the end, a lot of it comes down to money mindset, fear, imposter syndrome. It’s the same stuff. You know, Tony Robbins always used to say, when I would go to his events, 80 plus percent of it is the psychology and the mindset. 

Cliff Duvernois: Yes.

Brendan Burns: I love that because then what it also does for me is it gives me the ability to coach anyone on anything. Because if I can just help them with their mindset, that’s the majority of the issue 

Cliff Duvernois: yep. So I agree. I, in 80%, that number sounds right, 80% up here in the brain. So love it. So if anybody in our audience is listening and they want to. You know, they want to check you out, you know, look at your site, check out your coaching programs, whatever that might be.

Cliff Duvernois: What’s the best way for them to find you?

Brendan Burns: Yeah. So if you, if you’re interested in hanging out of the podcast, it’s the Brendan Burns show we’re on Apple, spotify. Instagram is @thebrandonburnsshow.. My website is And if you are a coach or consultant or someone looking to grow your business, we’d be happy to hop on a call with you.

Brendan Burns: And that link is Brendan H 

Cliff Duvernois: Nice. So for our audience, we we’ll make sure to have all those links in the show notes down below. Brendan. It’s been great talking to you today. I really appreciated this and I’ve learned even more about mindset. So thank you for that.

Brendan Burns: It’s my pleasure. Cliff is great being here and last plug is if anyone is in Antarctica, listening to this right now. Brendan H Book, a call. We’re all zoom. We’re all remote. I want to get to seven continents, so help me 

Cliff Duvernois: Come on scientists in Antarctica. Come on. You can come on through.

Brendan Burns: There’s gotta be some PHD students down there studying penguins. Let’s go. 

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah, it’s got like, got to get the mindset, right? The deal with all the frozen ice cubes and everything else. 

Brendan Burns: Yeah, exactly.