Cliff Duvernois Entrepreneurs on Podcasting

In this episode, Cliff discusses how podcasting can aid in establishing an extraordinary business and credibility, why credibility is a constant act and not a one-off victory, and the crucial steps to creating a life-proof, sustainable podcast for your business.

Topics we covered:

  • Establishing an extraordinary business and credibility with podcasting
  • Why credibility is a constant act and not a one-off victory
  • The crucial steps to creating a life-proof, sustainable podcast for your business

This episode is brought to you by “Podcast Accelerator Challenge“. I’ve been using podcasting as a powerful business growing tool for years. Nothing is more powerful than podcasting for help businesses grow. If you’re tired of playing roulette with your ad dollars and frustrated with algorithms constantly changing on social media platforms, the only thing that has changed about podcasting is the popularity of the platform.

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Show Notes:

  • Why podcasting will be worth the effort your put into it for your business (02:45)
  • Achieving “instant credibility” with a podcast related to your business (03:59)
  • How social media and technology has helped made the number of self-proclaimed experts and gurus more rampant (04:48)
  • Why a podcast will set you apart from the bad apples and prove to clients that you’re worth the investment (06:00)
  • Why consistency was a primary factor in landing big names for this podcast (10:41)
  • The impact of inconsistency on your credibility (11:24)
  • Why there isn’t necessarily a magic number to achieve credibility; consistency is what matters (13:06)
  • Attaining credibility over time by consistently showing up for your audience (15:57)
  • Setting your business up for success by making consistency in podcasting an atomic habit (16:42)
  • The secret weapon to maintaining your podcast schedule even when life happens (17:55)
  • The easiest way to damage your business’s reputation (19:44)
  • Why credibility is not a one-off achievement (21:25)
  • Making your business stand out in the digital age with podcasting (22:06)
  • How a stellar reputation is a surefire way to make conversion of your listeners a breeze (22:48)


Cliff Duvernois: Today’s episode is brought to you by podcast pipeline. We’ll take care of all your podcast production so you can focus on your business. Visit us at Hello everyone. And welcome back to Entrepreneurs on Podcasting. My name is Cliff DuVernois. This is episode 30 now, as you know, when I get to these types of episodes here, what I like to do is I like to go back through the previous interviews and find common themes that our guests are talking about and the success that they are seeing more importantly, what is it that we can learn from.

Cliff Duvernois: So you have heard many times before that success leaves clues, and sure enough, these interviews are just chucked full of all kinds of clues. Today’s episode begins. Uh, as I was listening to my interview with Rich Brooks, now I’m referring to episode number 28. He is the host of the Agents of Change podcast.

Cliff Duvernois: And during the interview, he said something that was very interesting to me that I wanted to share with you. That’s going to kick off today’s podcast episode. So let me put that in here for you.

Rich Brooks, The Agents of Change Podcast: If you’re doing it to generate business, like we are like, I was, and to have that come in right at this moment of doubt where you’re like, am I ever going to make any money off this podcast? Is it really worth doing it? That was definitely, a great feeling when all of a sudden somebody stepped up and said, you know, I could really use your help.

Rich Brooks, The Agents of Change Podcast: And I know that it supported other things that we’ve done in, and I’ve used certain episodes and the transcripts that we do from them to send them out to clients or prospects to be like, Hey, I think this episode is really going to help you. You should check this out So those have all been tools that I use to help build my business and build our reputation.

Cliff Duvernois: Now what he says to me actually raised a question that people will often times ask me. And that is why would I want to start a podcast? Now we all know that podcasts take a little bit of work. They take a little bit of effort and depending on who it is that trained you could take anywhere between. You know, my clients typically are spending about two hours on a podcast episode, or you could listen to a podcaster and spend 12 hours on an episode.

Cliff Duvernois: But usually when someone says to me, why would I want to start a podcast? One of my many answers to them is that it builds credibility. Right. Well, how exactly is that right? How does a podcast produce. Or help you to build a reputation or establish credibility, and I’ll be using those two terms interchangeably as we’re going through. This particular episode. 

Cliff Duvernois: So again, the question is, is how do we use a podcast to build that credibility or to do our understanding? So to understand this, what I did is I delved back through my other, uh, chain of interviews to get a perspective from an entrepreneur who has been podcasting for years now, oftentimes, especially when it comes to entrepreneurs who have been podcasting for, you know, maybe.

Cliff Duvernois: Or two months, they can’t see the entire landscape because they just got started. So that’s why I decided to lean on somebody who has been podcasting. Literally for years, this would be mark Maloney. He is the host of the natural born coaches podcast, which has produced over 800 episodes. So if anybody understands podcasting, it would definitely be mark.

Cliff Duvernois: Now, here is what he had to say about his podcast and about it being a credibility builder.

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: So I think there’s instant credibility in a lot of ways, especially if you can hang on and do enough episodes, how many podcasters are stuck in Pod Gatory if I say they don’t know if the show is alive or if it’s dead, or pod fading. Yeah. there we go. But yeah, if you could stick in there, people, my world, especially a lot of people.

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: Are um, roll out of the bed today and say, Hey, I can help coaches get more clients pay me a bunch of money. And sometimes they’re legit often. They’re not, there’s a lot of bad apples in our industry. If someone checks me out and say, oh geez, I’ve done Vino, upwards of 800 podcast episodes. And he’s been around now for eight years and he’s done this and he’s done that.

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: Then there is a credibility and it makes it an easier sell. 

Cliff Duvernois: So let’s go back and unpack a couple of things that he was talking about there. Now he talked about there. He said it was absolutely true. We live in a day and an age where somebody could just wake up in the morning. They burp, it tastes funny and they could say, you know what, I’m now an expert and I’m going to help people make money.

Cliff Duvernois: So I’m going to start charging them. Now, granted, there are good people out there that can do this. They’ve got the skillset there. They’ve got the training, they’ve got the proven track record. And then there are the bad ones, right? The bad apples. And unfortunately, in today’s internet age, it’s not so easy to spot the good ones from the bad ones.

Cliff Duvernois: Because typically the bad ones when they come out and they start posting them on social media, with pictures and stuff. And I see this all the time, and this is one of the things that always cracks me up. But you see somebody who says, Hey, I’m a life coach. They’re 18 years old and they’re holding like a thousand dollars.

Cliff Duvernois: In their hands in front of a camera, like, look at the things that I can do for you, right. Without telling us that they went and got a cash advance on their credit card. So they can post for this video. And I often wonder how in the world is an 18 year old going to give me any kind of life advantages.

Cliff Duvernois: Right. But sometimes it’s not so easy. Right. Some of these people that are out there and they’re doing this and they’re saying, oh yeah, I can help you make more money. And all this other stuff, they don’t have a proven track record. They don’t have a proven framework. Right. So how is it. That we can delineate between, you know, the people that are good, the people who are getting results versus the people who just rolled out of bed.

Cliff Duvernois: Right. The bad apples. Okay. So as mark said, there’s two things that are critical in there. And first, do they have a podcast? And if they have a podcast check that box because a podcast isn’t easy, it doesn’t have to be hard. But at the same point in time, if somebody is fly by night, if they are testing an idea, right?

Cliff Duvernois: They’re the bad ones, so to speak, they’re not going to go through the hassle of starting a podcast and producing episodes for a podcast. That’s just something that they’re not going to do. So now you come up to somebody, you see that they have a podcast and you say, great, what is the next thing that you do?

Cliff Duvernois: Well, if you’re like me, when I find somebody who has a podcast, the first thing I do is I take a look at the catalog of episodes that they have. Right. Do they have more than one episode? Do they have more than two episodes? Now, my barometer is because I know pod fade sets in after about eight episodes. As I always say, do they have more than eight episodes?

Cliff Duvernois: If they got more than eight episodes, check that box. People who are looking for the quick buck, just to be able to get in and get out or make some money or do whatever it is aren’t going to take the time and investment to not only start a podcast, but to sustain. A podcast because every day that goes by that they’re not producing episodes for the podcast just means that they’re either not serious about doing the podcasting or perhaps their business isn’t legitimate or perhaps their business is still relatively new, but it would definitely raise some questions to warrant further investigating.

Cliff Duvernois: Now, do you have the catalog of episodes behind you? If you do check that box? So now you’ve got two pluses over all of your competition. You’ve got two pluses in favor of establishing that reputation of establishing that credibility because you are now producing content that not everybody out there is so quick to be able to produce.

Cliff Duvernois: And then Marc went ahead. And he said something that was very interesting as well. He said, when somebody is listening to your episodes, right, they hear your episodes. They see that you are consistent. It makes the sale easier. Now think about that just for a second, right? It makes the sale easier because you are consistent.

Cliff Duvernois: Now. I often tell my clients that with each episode of the podcast, they need to treat it like a little sales person going out into the world and carrying your message, carrying your call to action, carrying a, uh, you know, your framework at a high level, whatever that might be. And the more episodes that you. Produce consistently the more salespeople that you have working for your company, it’s just that easy.

Cliff Duvernois: So in the case of Marc, he has 800 episodes. That is 800 little salespeople that go out into the world and can be exposed to all kinds of people. Day or night, 24, 7, 7 days a week. You don’t have to pay for vacation time.

Cliff Duvernois: You are not paying for medical leave. You don’t have to do anything. These episodes are always ready. Always standing by. And the reason why I say that is because somebody could sit there and say to me, well, Cliff, there’s no way on the planet. Someone’s going to come along in this 800 episodes, but they do. See that’s the thing when people find your podcast.

Cliff Duvernois: And if they like the episode that they’re hearing, guess what, they will binge the rest of your catalog. And it may take them a month. It may take them two months. It may take them four months, who knows, but they’re going to go back and they’re going to binge your episodes. If they like your message. If they like what it is that you have to say.

Cliff Duvernois: So think about it in terms of this. And if you were thinking about salespeople, all 800 of the sales pitch, people hitting the ears of your prospects over and over again. And this is what mark is talking about when things are making it easy, because when you establish that credibility by producing these episodes, right?

Cliff Duvernois: And every episode that you produce is just another notch, another brick in the wall. So to speak of building that credibility. And when you were doing this, when you were consistently showing up when you are not producing episodes haphazardly, now, do you think that this helps or hurts your credibility?

Cliff Duvernois: That’s my question to you now. Corey Harris, the co-hosts of the Bisquick podcast. He had this to say about producing episodes and credibility.

Corey Harris, BizQuik Podcast: And that that consistency is such an important part of our podcast and just making ourselves better because it gives us credibility and we’re starting to build a, a more. Well known guest list. So we’re getting bigger names on the podcast and not because, uh, primarily because we are just consistent. We have 160 ish episodes out there.

Corey Harris, BizQuik Podcast: We post every Tuesday and Thursday, we, our format has now gotten to be consistent. So for somebody who, has limited amount of time, they know that it’s going to take less than 30 minutes and the interview’s done. And that’s all that we ask of them aside from promotion on social media, et cetera, after the fact. 

Cliff Duvernois: So if consistency builds credibility, what does inconsistency do to our credibility? Which now begs a new question. At what point do we have credibility? If we’re producing episodes, is it, is it one episode? Is it 10 episodes? Is it a hundred episodes? At what point does somebody listen to our podcast saying, you know what?

Cliff Duvernois: This person is the real deal I would like to do business with. Well, that one is not so easy to answer. I have found because truth be told in all of my times and thinking about this topic and what I wanted to share, what I wanted to say. I couldn’t find an answer because it’s not something where you can sit there and say, you know what?

Cliff Duvernois: After 10 episodes you have established yourself as an authority. After 20 episodes, 30 episodes, a hundred episodes, there is no magical number. So, what I did is I went out onto the internet. I hit the Googles, I hit the YouTube and I was trying to find out if there’s some kind of a way like a psychological trigger or something else like that, that we would know when we have established ourselves and our credibility.

Cliff Duvernois: Now, believe it or not, I actually wound up on Simon Sinek. Now, Simon Sinek. He’s a New York times bestselling author and he has a seminal TedX presentation that is called “Start With Why”. And this particular presentation has gotten millions upon millions of views. It literally catapulted him into the, you know, the common, you know, stratosphere, so to speak with regards to leadership.

Cliff Duvernois: But what I want to do is I want to listen to what he has to say here, uh, with regards to when you know, you’ve hit that point. So here’s what Simon had to say.

Simon Sinek: Do you love your wife? Yes. Right. Prove it, like what’s the metric. Give me the number that helps me know. Right. Cause when you met her, you didn’t love her. Right Now, you love her. Right? Tell me the day. The love happened. It’s an impossible question, right? But it’s not that it doesn’t exist. It’s that it’s much easier to prove over time.

Simon Sinek: Right? So all leadership is the same thing. It’s about transitions. So if you were to, if you were to go to the gym, right? It’s like exercise, right. If you go to the gym and you work out and you come back and you look in the mirror, you will see nothing. And if you go to the gym the next day and you come back and you look in the mirror, you will see nothing, right.

Simon Sinek: So you clearly, there’s no results can be measured. It must not be effective. So we quit, right. Or if you fundamentally believe that this is the right course of action, and you stick with it, like in a relationship, I bought her flowers and I wished her happy birthday and she doesn’t love me. Clearly I’ll give up, you know, that’s not what happens if you, if you believe there’s something there, you commit yourself to act an act of service.

Simon Sinek: You commit yourself to the regime, the exercise.. You can screw it up. You can eat chocolate cake one day. You can skip a skip a day or two, you know, you, it allows for that. But if you stick with it consistently, I’m not exactly sure what day, but I know you’ll start getting into shape. I know it. And the same with the relationship.

Simon Sinek: It’s not about the events. It’s not about intensity. It’s about consistency, right? You go to the dentist twice a year. Your teeth will fall out. You have to brush your teeth every day for two minutes. What does brushing your day, twice a day for two minutes, do? Nothing. Unless you do it every day, twice a day for two minutes, right?

Simon Sinek: It’s the consistency going to the gym for nine hours does not get you into shape. Working out every day for 20 minutes gets you into shape. But it’s the daily practice of all the monotonous little boring things like brushing your teeth that matter the most. She didn’t fall in love with you because you remembered her birthday and bought her flowers.

Simon Sinek: And Valentine’s day, she fell in love with you because when you woke up in the morning, you said, good morning to her before you checked your phone.. She fell in love with you because when you went to the fridge to get yourself a drink, you got her one without even asking, she fell in love with you because when you had an amazing day at work and she came home and she had a terrible day at work, you didn’t say.

Simon Sinek: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But let me tell you about my day. You sat and listened to her awful day and you didn’t say a thing about your amazing day. This is why she fell in love with you. I can’t tell you exactly what day and it was no particular thing you did. It was the accumulation of all of those little things. That she woke up one days and it’s as if she pressed a button, she goes, I love him.

Simon Sinek: Right? Leadership is exactly the same. There’s no event. There’s no thing I can tell you. You have to do that. Your people will trust you. It just doesn’t work that way. 

Cliff Duvernois: So according to Simon, there’s no magic number. There’s no magic date. There isn’t something that comes along and says, you know, if you start producing a podcast episode today in six months, you will be established yourself as credibility and reputation. It’s not that easy. Only time can tell whether you will be consistent.

Cliff Duvernois: Only time will tell if you’re having the impact on your audience. Only time will tell if your audience is going to think of you as a person who is credible, somebody who has the reputation, somebody who is known for getting their clients results. In other words, it’s not an end goal. It is the act of being consistent.

Cliff Duvernois: Now I’ll be one of the first ones to admit that being consistent is hard. Life happens. I totally get it for family emergencies, whole pop up, or the power goes out or are we just plain forget to produce that half of sowed? It happens. Life happens. If anything, you need to go back to listen to episode 25.

Cliff Duvernois: When I talked about some of the big struggles for credibility and what we can do to get over. But if we truly believe that consistently builds credibility, if we truly believe that credibility makes selling easier than consistency, doesn’t become an option, does it? Consistent becomes something that we have to do when we get up in the morning, when we sit down to create that episode or to record that episode?

Cliff Duvernois: And be able to get it out there and put it out there because our reputations are at stake. Our credibility is at stake. Now, is it possible that you might every now and then fall down and forget to produce an episode or produce one a day later? Something like that? Like I said before, it happens. It always does.

Cliff Duvernois: And it always will. 

Cliff Duvernois: And this is one of the main reasons why, when I’m working with my clients, my podcast clients, I always tell them to have a bank of five, six, even seven episodes built up in advance because if it gets to be the day before you’re supposed to have a podcast episode produced, don’t panic, don’t stress. Just use one of the episodes that are in your bank and get it out.

Cliff Duvernois: Now, one of the things that they always do when I say, I want you to have a bank of 5, 6, 7, 8 episodes produced is I always get this all, you know, it’s like dealing with a college student all over again. Oh man. You mean I have to absolutely do work? Trust me. If I didn’t think it was the best course of action, I wouldn’t suggest it.

Cliff Duvernois: The reason why is because you want to make sure that you’re getting your episodes out there. Consistency. Cause as, as all of our guests have shared, as Simon Sinek has pointed out before it is all of these small things that we do consistently that make an impact on the people who are listening to our episodes and who are listening to our podcasts.

Cliff Duvernois: And so when we have this bank of episodes produced and ready to go, There’s no pressure. There’s no fuss. If anything, it is an insurance policy against your reputation. Think about that. There isn’t anybody listening to this podcast episode right now that wouldn’t say to me, that insurance is a bad idea.

Cliff Duvernois: Right? Health insurance is a bad idea. I shouldn’t have it. Well, wait until you get into a car accident and you need it, right? Oh. Having car insurance is bad. Wait until you get in a car accident. Right this small little amount, this small, consistent payment that you’re making every single month into this large policy comes off in spades when you need it.

Cliff Duvernois: And this is exactly where having these episodes comes into play. Having this five, six or seven episodes, it allows you to maintain your consistency. As I said before, an insurance policy against damaging your reputation against damaging your credibility.. 

Cliff Duvernois: Now I say this because inconsistency can actually damage the relationship, right? It can damage your ability to be able to, to say what it is that you do, and to be able to back up your claims. One of these for instance, is going back to my college. I am in one of my classes and I am struggling and the professor would always stand up in front of the class and say, well, if you have any questions or problems or anything, just come by my office during office hours and I will help you.

Cliff Duvernois: I went to that man’s office at least five times during his posted office hours. He was never there. And so I just learned that he was never there. So when he would stand up in front of the class and say, oh, well, you know, you could just come to my office and I’ll answer any questions. I learned that that was a crock.

Cliff Duvernois: Right. He wasn’t going to be there. And if he wasn’t going to be there, why take him up on his word? Right. I didn’t trust him. And the only way I got through that class was because I knew a couple of students in the class who actually did understand the material. They were the ones that tutored me. They were the ones that helped me with the material.

Cliff Duvernois: And I never signed up with another class with that professor again, because I just simply didn’t trust him. This is the damage that can happen when you’re not being consistent. Right with your actions and being able to be able to, uh, carry through on your promises and on your reputation.

Cliff Duvernois: So when you do this, understanding that it’s the act of consistency. That builds your reputation, not an end goal, not because you put it announcement on LinkedIn or Facebook and said, Hey everybody, I am the expert in this. That’s not what, that’s not what solidifies your reputation for anybody knowing out there, you just made a statement and that’s all.

Cliff Duvernois: Reputation consistently consistency is an act. It is something you are actively doing every single day. There’s a S there’s a phrase out there that says, you know, success is not earned. It is rented. And the rent is due every day. It’s the same thing with being consistent with being, with building up your reputation.

Cliff Duvernois: It is something that you have to do on a daily basis to constantly be out there and saying, you know, I am the expert. Here is the topic for today. Yeah. Okay. The next step is okay. Here is the topic, or here is an expert I’m going to bring in because I don’t know everything. So I want to learn from this expert as well as you being able to learn from this expert.

Cliff Duvernois: So it is the act of being consistent that builds the reputation. And that’s why I think that podcasting is such a great platform to build. Our reputation online, something that can help you leapfrog everybody else that’s out there because podcasting, as we all know, is a completely different medium than just posting an image onto Instagram, which people are going to forget about within three minutes. Podcasts are out there for people to consume for months, if not years, like in the case of mark McWhinney with its 800 episodes, still talking about how people will go back and they will binge, they will start at episode one and they will listen to all of his episodes. And then at some point in time, they reach out to him and say, Hey, I’m ready to do business with you.

Cliff Duvernois: And they say the same thing. I feel like I already know you. This is what a reputation does. This is what. Act, uh, actively working on your credibility does so when, by the time that you get ready to have that sales call, these people understand you, they know you, they know your framework, they already know the results that you are able to get for your clients.

Cliff Duvernois: They know how you think they know what you believe. That is the power of reputation. And that only comes through the act of being consistent..

Cliff Duvernois: Ladies and gentlemen, that will conclude this episode for today. Thank you so much for listening and I will catch you in the next episode. Cheers.