Hailey Rowe- Health Coach Nation

Hailey Rowe has worked for over eight years as a health coach and in the business development for two rapidly growing health startup companies. She became passionate about helping other health coaches go beyond their certifications and address the missing pieces that are holding them back from success.  As the host of Health Coach Nation, she is using podcasting not only to help her business but to impact her community.

Topics we covered:

  • Achieving podcast production efficiency
  • The best way to generate leads from podcasting
  • Starting your podcast imperfectly
  • The invaluable advantages of having a podcast for your business

This episode is brought to you by “Podcast Accelerator Challenge“. I’ve been using podcasting as a powerful business growing tool for years. Nothing is more powerful than podcasting for help businesses grow. If you’re tired of playing roulette with your ad dollars and frustrated with algorithms constantly changing on social media platforms, the only thing that has changed about podcasting is the popularity of the platform.

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Select Links from the Episode:

Show Notes:

  • The FAST framework to efficiently growing your online health coaching business (01:23)
  • How Hailey gets clients without sales pitches nor discovery calls (05:51)
  • What you need to do to use your podcast to nurture relationships (07:38)
  • How to become more intentional with your content (08:40)
  • Why you NEED to adapt an abundance mindset (11:15)
  • How Hailey generated leads from her podcast (13:13)
  • Why less is more in podcasting (16:01)
  • The secret to casual advertising: micro mentions (17:50)
  • Why consistency wasn’t always key with her podcast and how she made it so (19:02)
  • The easiest way to produce a podcast episode (21:55)
  • The priceless rewards brought by podcasting (22:53)
  • Why mistakes are part of the process (25:04)
  • As Nike said…Just do it. (28:04)


Cliff Duvernois: Hey, they’re world changers. And welcome to another episode of the Entrepreneurs on Podcasting. Today’s guest worked for over eight years as a health coach and in the business development for two rapidly growing health startup companies. And that is when she became passionate about helping other health coaches go beyond their certifications and address the missing pieces that are holding them back from success, which we’re actually going to chat about today. 

With almost 200 episodes and 90 counting five-star reviews. Today’s guest is really using podcasting, not only to help her business but to impact her community. Please welcome to the show, the host of Health Coach Nation, Hailey Rowe. Hailey, how are you? 

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: I’m great. How are you doing? 

Cliff Duvernois: I’m doing well. Thank you for asking. Why don’t you tell us a little bit more about your business and what it entails.

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: Yeah. So my goal is to help health, life and mindset coaches grow their business and be profitable coaches online because I know that learning sales and marketing is very important and much-needed skills. If you’re going to succeed as a coach. And I think. That the certification programs get you ready to coach.

But then when it comes to starting a business, there’s not a lot of support for that when you’re just starting out. My goal and what I do is I teach my clients my fast way framework to grow their business. And to be able to book clients that especially develop their own unique high ticket coaching programs.

That’s a little bit about what my show’s about. We talk about time management, mindset, marketing and sales, and that’s what I love. 

Cliff Duvernois: You bring up a really good point. With another guest on their show, we actually talked about this cause it’s whenever you have in a business, right. There’s like three parts. First is the product and everybody who builds a business, they’re really good at building that product, whether it’s e-comm, whether it’s coaching, whether it’s a service-based business, but then you have the other two legs of the business, which number one is marketing.

And number two is sales, and that’s where it seems a lot of people fall down, they don’t have the experience. I’ve got a great coaching program. How do I get started? How does your fast work framework actually help the coach to be able to get that marketing, to be able to get those sales?

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: Yeah, well, it stands for Followers, action, sales, time management and transformation. And what I mean by those is with followers, we have to talk about how are you getting new potential clients in the door and how are you booking discovery calls or consults, or however you label them in your business. But for a lot of high ticket coaches, it comes down to how many people they’re talking to and being able to make offers to if it’s a fit, for them to have a more predictable business.

So that’s kind of the first part is how do you get those discovery calls? How do you get people coming in. The A part stands for action. So that’s how do you create content? That’s compelling enough that people want to take action and they want to reach out to you or they want to sign up for your email list? A lot of times people are just being very unintentional at their posts.

They’re just kinda like, oh, you know, blueberries are good for you, but that’s. You know what your ideal client might need to hear. And then the sales part is how do you, what’s your sales process and what are you selling? And do you feel really awesome about it? So making sure you have your signature program, making sure that you have maybe upsell in a downside.

Feeling confident on your discovery calls, coaching through common objections, maybe in your marketing before the call or, on the call. If somebody is just having, any concerns, making sure you’re covering those and then time management. What do you prioritize in your business? Because there’s so many things out there there’s so many things you could be doing and what are the client generating activities.

And then the last piece transformation is two things. It’s the personal transformation required to become. Your best entrepreneur self, because a lot of times there’s things that are stopping you. Like you’re afraid you’re overcharging, or you’re afraid you can’t help. You’re not enough. Or you need more certifications or you know, you don’t like going live on video or you just label yourself as bad at sales or you hate sales and have a bad connotation with it or whatever.

The other part of transformation is what you provide for your clients. So making sure that the transformation you provide is really clear, your messaging is clear. You feel good about delivering it and that you can get good social proof or testimonials or case studies from your program, because that’s the best for marketing that you can do.

Right? So that’s the fast remark and what we work on too. 

Cliff Duvernois: That’s wonderful. And I got to tell you this, just from my personal experience this year, that has been a recurring theme, almost on a daily basis. And it’s coming from all the people, but it’s, who you need to become, 

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: Yeah. 

Cliff Duvernois: To be able to achieve your goals, to achieve your objectives, to build the business.

You want to have to have the life that you want to have, the relationships that you want to have and all this other stuff. Personally speaking, I’m glad you included that as part of your package, because I think that’s a missing piece that a lot of entrepreneurs are missing. This is that who do I have to become to really be able to serve those I’ve been called to serve at a very high level.

So that’s absolutely brilliant. What I would like to do is discuss with you. Why did you decide to get into podcasting?

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: Yeah originally I decided to get into podcasting because I wanted an opportunity and an excuse to network people who I wanted to learn from, with people who I think my audience would benefit from. And. Because I was new and I just wanted a way to connect with people because I worked virtually and it’s kind of lonely when you work virtually.

So I was like, you know, I just want to talk to people. I want to interview people. I always have loved podcasts. I’ve listened to so many podcasts. And so I was like, why not have my own and why not try this out? And so that was my original reason. And now it’s become more of a nurturing part of my business and just something that.

Gives people results ahead of time before they joined my Facebook group or before they book a consult with me and learn about my programs. Because I can tell you there’s been many times where people say, oh, I’ve been listening to your podcast for a year and now I want to sign up for your program.

Or now I’m ready to work with a coach or whatever. It’s not for that purpose. Like I really, my pod like, meaning I’m not just trying to sell people on my podcast. It’s kind of just there as an additional form of nurturing. And that’s kinda what it has become today. 

Cliff Duvernois: So when you’re talking about nurturing, you’re also referring to that whole know, like, and trust. 

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: Yeah. 

Cliff Duvernois: There’s sometimes I’ll listen to a podcast that actually get turned off on because it feels like it’s nothing more than a 20, 30 minute sales pitch.

How are you using it to nurture? Like you said, like somebody listen to your podcast for a year and then came along and said, you know what, I’m ready to join your program. Now somebody might listen to it for a month. And say, I’m ready to join your program now. With regards to the episodes that you produce and you, you stick them out there, what are some of the ways that you help to nurture that relationship?

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: I think it’s a couple of things. One is the guests I bring on and the fact that we stick to my pillars, which is time management, mindset, sales, or marketing. So every episode ties back to one of those things. So people understand, these are the things I help people. So already, they know I kind of what I do and how I help people.

And then the other thing that happens on the podcast is I don’t hold back. Meaning I’ve had some episodes where. I am giving like my best time management system that you can actually stick to or whatever. Like I think a lot of people get afraid of, Well, I don’t want to give too much away, or I don’t want to make it too good. Cause then they’re not going to sign up for a program and I’ve never subscribed to that. And then the, I think the other thing is introducing them to resources. Cause sometimes my guests are a better fit for what they’re looking for or is something that can help them. So I think just having that abundance mindset and I also do have a short little, sponsored by the dirty hair coach program.

It’s no longer than 10 seconds.

Cliff Duvernois: right.

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: And my episode, just to mention like, Hey. This is how you can work with me. But it’s really most of the time it’s repurposed Facebook lives and it’s just nurture, it’s just giving value and that’s about it. I definitely could be more strategic with it, but I think you also have to know your priorities.

And for me right now, the podcast is a repurposing tool for me to be quite honest. I know that sounds pretty bad to say, but it’s just like, no, I repurpose it’s there it’s every week. We’ve been doing it for two years and eventually there might come a time where it becomes my main thing, but it’s, that’s just kinda how it rolls right now.

And to, could I be more strategic with it? yes.

but that’s how it works right now. 

Cliff Duvernois: No, this is great. And I want to make sure that I really point this out too, in a couple of things that you said that I think are just absolutely brilliant. First off, taking the audio from your Facebook lives and that now becomes a podcast episode. So typically what I do when I talk to people is I tell them, think about podcasting in terms of like the tip of the spear.

Because from a podcast you can get all kinds of content. The only thing that I would ever put up in front of an actual podcast, just doing pure audio would be if you did it in video format. And then if you did it in video format, strip the audio that now becomes your podcasts. And then from there you can create all kinds of different Facebook posts, Instagram, Instagram reels.

I mean, you can just go crazy with all that content. I think actually from that standpoint, it’s very strategic with what you’re doing. Because unless you have an army of, you know, 10. People, you know, dedicated social media, people dedicated all this other stuff.

When you’re a small business owner, one person, two people in your business, whatever that might be, you have to be very strategic about making sure that you want to spend time to get content out there, but that can’t be your full-time job.

Because like you talked about before you still have to close clients, you still have to talk to people on the phone, you’ve got to get your clients results and things like that. Um, so, you know, with that being. I don’t want to put that disclaimer that that’s out there, but the second thing I want to talk to you about, and I, I think that’s absolutely brilliant what you said.

You have the abundance mindset, right? It’s not about scarcity. It’s the type of guests that you got on. They might be in direct competition with you. But you still, you, you know, you still have them on there and stuff. What I want to do is I want to discuss a little bit about, cause, cause for a lot of people, scarcity is there their default setting.

have to learn the abundance thing. So how did you make that switch going from, from scarcity to abundance? What was that trigger thought for you?

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: That is such a good question, because I would have used to be scared to have some of the gossip on my path because you’re Right,

There’s a lot that are literally doing the same thing as me, but with their own system, with their own message, with a slight twist on their niche, whatever. right.

So what helped me with that is.

Being able to understand that there’s enough to go around and the right people, if it’s a right match, there’s really nothing. You can’t, you can do wrong to, dissuade your ideal client. Meaning if somebody is just a fit for you. It’s just a fit. Like there’s, you’re not going to mess it up by having a guest on your podcast, who is somebody else?

Right. And I think the other thing that helped was just getting more advanced in business. Like for me, I just wanted to eventually, leads come in on a regular basis. I got my systems in place. I, I always felt like there’s more than enough. I wasn’t like waiting around for people and feeling in this scarcity and feeling like I have to close everybody.

Like. I got out of that. And I think part of it’s because even though this is not the best thing to say, but like my circumstances changed, meaning I just got more successful over time just because over time things compound. Right. So I just didn’t need quote, unquote, the business as much. And then number two I think that.

Just changing my mindset around it. Like I said before, there’s enough to go around the right people will resonate. I, I can trust that the value I bring will pay off. That kind of thing really helped me as well. 

Cliff Duvernois: Nice. And one of the things that I do want to talk about here is, it’s great that your system is working. You’re getting leads. You’re growing like crazy. What I would like to do is talk about what specifically podcasting has done for your business. What are the opportunities maybe it’s open for you or, or something along those lines?

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: Yeah. 100%. So actually some of my podcast guests have, because you talk about, oh, what do you need in your business? What are you working on these days? A lot of times they’ve referred me to people I’ve worked with, um, who have been super helpful either on my team or people who’ve become clients or even my podcast guests, because I do one of the services I do is LinkedIn lead generation.

And a lot of them ended up being interested in that either to book podcast guests, book themselves on podcasts or get discovery calls with their ideal clients. So that was interesting. I didn’t go in with that mindset. But sometimes. You know, get to know your guests Well, and they need something and you can help.

Right? Well, that’s part of it. I also would say developing relationships like business relationships. I have some friends now who are fellow entrepreneurs, fellow podcasters, and it’s fun to just kind of. No they’re there and cheer them on and see what they’re up to. That’s always fun. And then I think the other thing is it’s created traffic to my Facebook community. So.

because my podcast and my Facebook group health coach nation are titled pretty much the same. And my group is for all types of coaches and same with my podcast, but I started with a very niche name. And I always talk about, but that was something I wanted to do initially. Um, that’s been helpful. So a lot of people say, oh, I listen to your podcast and Now I’m doing this, joining this community.

So that’s cool.

Cliff Duvernois: Now is that part of the funnel that you developed, like, you know, first step, just get them listening to the podcast. And then there, the next step from there is in Facebook. Is that kind of like 

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: You know, Um, no, I should have a very technical funnel and I have a funnel for other things, but not for my podcast yet. So really with my podcasts, it’s been, I do bring it up like,

I, for a while. It depends on what I’m promoting. So sometimes I’m promoting a lead magnet on my podcast to get them on my email list.

And a lot of times when they join my email list, they find out about the Facebook group. So I guess, yes, informally that’s probably what happens. They join my lead magnet. Then they get to know about the Facebook group. Then they joined the Facebook group. Um, so yeah.

I guess a little bit, but no, it wasn’t intentional that way.

It just kind of happened. 

Cliff Duvernois: I always bring up with people is, don’t be afraid to throw multiple hooks out there, right? So you were talking before about, Hey, subscribed to my email newsletter. You might mention something about LinkedIn lead gen in an episode, something else might be about the Facebook.

Cause you really don’t know what’s going to resonate. Somebody might listen to you. You know your episodes and think, God, I don’t want another email. I’m already getting a thousand emails a day. I don’t want another email. But they’re like, Hey, I’m on Facebook all the time. So that might be a way for them to connect.

So, but they won’t know, unless you tell them. That’s really cool that, that you’re doing that.

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: Yeah. I think what you just brought up, it’s like, you don’t have to pack it all in one episode, like micro mentions. So for example, some of my episodes are interviewing my clients about their experience. Other podcasts are about more of like, nurturing and educating and get this lead magnet to help you continue that. Others are like, Hey, do you want to book a call where we can talk about this particular podcast topic and see how it applies to your business?

So, you see how every episode you could take a different twist and it’s a wonderful way to get feedback from your audience about what’s working like, oh my gosh, this podcast episode booked this many calls or this podcast episode got this many people sign up to this particularly magnet. 

And the thing that I, the only thing I don’t love about podcasting is I can’t see who’s watching it unless they connect with me somehow directly, which bums me out.

Cause I want to know who are my listeners? What do you guys want? What do you want to hear? And obviously you can look at your data to see which episodes are doing in the best. But I would love to be able to be like, oh, I saw that they walked, you know, they were here and they were watching this. And connect with them and see how it’s going for them.

You know, that’s the one frustrating part. 

Cliff Duvernois: The only role metric that you’d have as a podcaster is downloads, but even then that might be, , not entirely accurate. Especially when you’re first starting out, it’s kinda hard to tell what content is resonating.

Just gotta keep throwing it out, throwing it out, throwing it out. And hopefully over time you start to. You start to get a feel for that. Uh, I like to, and I want to explore this topic a little bit more. You mentioned the term micro mentions, which I love, and if it’s the same thing, I call it product placement.

Right. So, for our audience, why don’t you explain a little bit about what a micro mention is?

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: Yeah. So micro mention is tying whatever you’re talking about to what you do or how you help your clients or the next step they can take with you in my opinion. So that would be like, let’s say you do a podcast. Like I did a podcast about time management and I taught, I broke down a time management system that I use with one of my clients who felt like always overwhelmed, always like there’s more stuff to do, et cetera. And, uh, at the end, I think I mentioned like, There were either one of two things I mentioned, one of them was I think it was let’s schedule a time audit call. We’ll talk about where you’re spending your time on your business, where maybe you should be spending your time on your business and see if it’s a fit for me to help you get there when it comes to how you’re spending your time and focus, something like that.

Or I might’ve said, oh, get my overwhelm master class to help you through this process and the overwhelm, this going to come up along the way or something like that. So notice how you tie it to something that’s natural. And would relate to whatever you’re talking about and thats the micro mention. 

Cliff Duvernois: Thank you for that. So with podcasting, when you got into podcasting, what is like one of the biggest struggles that you’ve come across?

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: Yeah.

Well, the biggest struggle for a while was being consistent with it. And now, because I repurpose it, that is not a problem anymore because I’m already doing my Facebook lives and interviews and stuff and the other and finding guests, like now it’s a natural thing that happens because I do LinkedIn lead gen because I’m always talking to other entrepreneurs.

So I think my habits have changed and therefore the things I used to struggle with aren’t a struggle anymore. And I also think for a while, And Eric, well, this is a current struggle. I’ve outsourced getting help with my podcasts, meaning show notes made, getting it up and loaded. And that, that was a massive, amazing, like best thing ever shift. But where I’m at right now is, I need to leverage it more. Meaning I need to have more posts about the podcast for my guests to share afterwards or for myself to share afterwards. I kind of have it running in the background, but now, and then the other thing is like with my show notes, not just outsourcing it now, but taking it to the next level, making sure their SEO optimized, making sure they’re really good and making sure I don’t even need to change them or check them because there’s, there’s, you know, there’s been mistakes and I haven’t refined that process enough just fully to be honest. So where I’m at right now is like, I need to refine my process. So it’s cleaner and better, and the show notes are better. And you know, it’s not just kind of there.

And I need to repurpose and have the content and follow up with my guests better. As far as like, Hey, your episodes live here. You could share it. Right. I sometimes miss that part. So. 

Cliff Duvernois: And I want to go back to before when you talked about being consistent, because what you said was absolutely brilliant. And, and I, I made a note here, cause I’m going to quote you on that. Uh, as much as I can speak in a creating content, uh, and that is when you first get into podcasting, it was about being consistent.

But then when you switched over to doing the Facebook live, Right. And stripping the audio off and then doing his Facebook, I think is great. And the reason why I say that, of course, we all know this, right? Depending on what article you read, 60, 80% of podcasts out there are going to pod fade. So what you did is rather than try to force the podcast to fit into your business, you opted to create the Facebook live, which gives you a lot more interaction with your audience. You know, you connect. You can have those great experiences and then just rip that audio and stick it out there as a podcast. And then you outsource the notes, you know, from it and being able to create it.

So literally it’s, it’s the first time I’ve ever seen this, but I think it’s great. You really did pivot on the podcast production, because you recognize you, you must have recognized the value in that to say, Hey, I need to keep doing this. Where did you come up with that idea?

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: I just, I’m all about simplicity and I always want to find, is there a better way to do this? And I think I’m like the queen of content re-purposing. I love to take a clip from my video that I did once and share it in a shorter clip on Instagram, or take a quote from a video and turn it into a written post.

Like I just am all about, let’s be resourceful with what we have rather than just having a million different things and never leveraging them. Yeah. And I think people need repetition in different ways too. So I think for me, it was, thinking about I’m, what am I already doing that could help my podcast?

And I realized, oh, I’m already doing these Facebook lives in my community. And I’m already doing some of these stream yard videos. So why not just turn that into the podcast? 

Cliff Duvernois: That’s great. What has been one of your biggest successes when it comes to your podcast?

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: Oh, that’s a good question. I mean, to me, I think it is the people who send me messages and stuff, and just say, Hey, like I have done X, Y, and Z with your podcasts. Or I use that one tip and it booked me three clients. Or, you know, that, that to me, or finding out who’s listening because they tagged me in an Instagram story or something like that.

Like the little things really excite me, like when I see people implementing the podcast. And I also would say that it’s connected me with some really big people who I thought were quote unquote out of my league and it’s grown my confidence in a sense that, wow, like I could, I could try to connect with anybody really.

And it gives me that reason to connect with them. So it’s been a huge thing for that. And same thing with being on other people’s podcasts. It gives me a little bit of leverage to be like, Hey, I have my own podcast.

I also have been on top 10 entrepreneur podcasts. Like let’s, let’s do this. Right.

So it it’s given me that little bit of credibility that’s helped me get my foot in the door in a lot of ways. And then also just expand my elevate and expand my circle.

Cliff Duvernois: That’s great. One of the things that you got to remember is when you have a podcast and you’re putting it out there, just like, with your Facebook groups or if you had a live YouTube channel or anything else like that, to quote Gary Vaynerchuk, you become a media company. Once you do that.

You’re going to grab an audience and it might be 10 people. It might be 10 million people. It doesn’t matter, but you’re going to have an audience. You are going to have a platform. And the great thing about doing interview style podcast, Facebook lives is that you can invite people. That your people will find absolutely valuable and well, it’s the same point in time.

You can get access to, for them as well, to be able to get other platforms and really be able to get your message out that you normally wouldn’t be able to. You know, so I, man, I, I think that’s absolutely great. So for the entrepreneur out there who has a podcast, they might be struggling.

What would be like a key piece of advice or maybe some simple advice? Cause you’re about simplicity and I’m totally on board with that. So what would be some of the things that you would, that you would say or advice that you give.

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: I think the biggest thing is patience and it compounds over time and be okay with it changing over time and adapt over time. Cause like, for me, my podcasts used to be called the Hailey Rowe show, which I don’t know why I picked that. That was a terrible name. It was not what resonate, like not what my audience would be searching.

So I changed it. And then same thing with the title I got. I mean, Podcast cover art. My initial podcast, I would cover, I got down on fivver.com. It looked terrible and I just got started. So like my whole thing is start in perfectly take messy action and change it later. Like get started, put it out there.

It will sit for two years. That’s great. And then when you have more capacity or money to invest or whatever. Update the photo update the title. If you.

need to like it’s okay to make changes. It doesn’t have to be perfect from the get-go, which I think stops people upfront a lot. And the patients that it compounds over time, because you’re not going to see visually instant gratification from doing a podcast.

You have to promote it. You have to ask for the reviews and initially. It’s it’s going to be something you have to pursue. And I think a lot of people just expect if I just start doing the podcast, I’m just going to get all these loyal listeners. They’re going to find me naturally. And it’s just going to take off.

But if you go in with that mindset, you’re probably going to be giving up very quickly. So make sure you have that patience and know that it compounds over time and it sits there and that’s helpful to you and your business. 

Cliff Duvernois: And you said a whole lot there. That’s that? Uh, I’d like to go back and unpack just a, just a couple of those things. Start imperfectly. You know, I just love that. Just take that first step, right. If you’re waiting for everything to be perfect, it’s never going to be. Just take that first step and start imperfectly.

The other thing that you said, taking that imperfect action, right. Once you start you know, you can, you can always get better. You can always change the cover art. You can always change the name which was great. Cause that led to your second point there about, uh, being flexible, right.

Just because you started your podcast one way doesn’t mean it can’t morph into something else, which they, in both of those things I think are just absolutely great. Now I have to ask this question. Uh, because I’ve, I’ve become a big believer in coaching. I got three coaches as a matter of fact. Uh, so I just want to ask this.

 It always impresses me when, when people talk this way and stuff and I’m like, yeah, that’s exactly it. Now is this like are there other strategies that you’re applying to your business with regards to like start imperfectly, take imperfect action is this all stuff that you learned, getting your, your coaching certification, or is that something that you just knew, like intuitively? How did you, how did you have the awareness, I guess is where I want to go?

Cause you you’re very aware of what’s happening around you and you’re able to make those changes, which is great. And I would like to know like where, where does this come from.

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: I would say it comes through doing primarily. Because when I, everything I’ve done in my business or everything, like I worked in business development and marketing at startups. And it was this consistent theme of do this insert title of major project that I had no idea how to do and have never done in my life before, have no experience doing.

And they say, figure it out and it’s due on this date. And so I would have to, I had no choice but to figure it out, try it, get scrappy with it, get imperfect, perfect with it, do it, deliver it. And that was like a crash course in entrepreneurship. And so I do have a lot of coaching certifications and it taught me how to feel confident in coaching and asking questions and guiding my clients and providing structure and how to teach something in a better way than just doing things.

And then being like, Hey guys, this is what I did. So you do it too. Because that doesn’t always apply to your clients and that’s not how to coach, right? So I, it helped me kind of with the art of it, but the actual doing part has helped me with the lessons of, start imperfect. These little like lessons and principles that are timeless, that apply to a lot of my clients.

The doing is really what got me there. 

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah. Cause I think it just goes back to the whole thing. You can read books, watch YouTube videos. But until you actually do it and start getting experienced with it, that’s when the real education starts. For people who are listening to this podcast, they might want to check you out, find your podcast online, join your Facebook group.

You know, especially if they’re, if they’re in the coaching space, uh, what would be the best way for people to connect with you?

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: Yeah, I would say the best place would be to connect with me in the Health Coach Nation Facebook group. So it’s facebook.com/groups/health coach nation. You can join us there. I also have a free niche marketing and Instagram bio checklist training on my website at haileyrowe.com. And you can connect with me on Instagram at Hailey H a I L E Y underscore Rowe, R O w E. And then of course there’s the Health Coach Nation podcast, which is on the podcast channels. 

Cliff Duvernois: nice. So for our audience, we will have all those links in the show notes down below. Hailey, it’s been awesome. Having you on the podcast. I love talking about mindset and awareness and all that other stuff. Uh, so yeah, it’s just been great having you on the podcast today. Thank you.

Hailey Rowe, Health Coach Nation: Yeah. Thank you. I loved being here.