Tom Shay is a fourth generation entrepreneur with a company called Profits Plus. His mission helps small businesses increase their profits, plus build their business for the future. Now for his podcast, he started way back in 2009, if you can believe it. So if anybody is qualified to write a book about podcasting for your business, it would be our guest today. 

Speaking of writing, he’s written for more publications than anybody else I know, including marketplace retail, swim journal, Christian Retailing, just to name a few of the 70 publications that he has been published in. So everyone, please help me in welcoming to the show, the host of the Small Business Conversation podcast.

Topics we covered:

  • How Tom’s passion turned into a business
  • Conquering the outskirts of his comfort zone
  • Making an impact with simplicity

This episode is brought to you by “Start My Business Podcast Challenge“. I’ve been using podcasting as a powerful business growing tool for years. Nothing is more powerful than podcasting for help businesses grow. If you’re tired of playing roulette with your ad dollars and frustrated with algorithms constantly changing on social media platforms, the only thing that has changed about podcasting is the popularity of the platform.

If you’re a business owner and you want to grow your business but you’re not sure where to start, then join the FREE 5-Day Start My Business Podcast Challenge. Within 5 days, you’ll go from no podcast to having a full realized podcast with built in strategies to help use this tool for your business.

Select Links from the Episode:

Show Notes:

  • How Tom has transformed talking into a business (01:30) 
  • What 99 years of business strategy knowledge looks like (02:45)
  • If you can’t beat them, join them (03:46)
  • How Tom monetized his passion (04:27)
  • Tom’s secret recipe to a profitable business model (05:40)
  • The unintended beginning of Small Business Conversations (06:05)
  • How four years of hard work went down the drain did a 180 (06:25) 
  • On having a controversial sidekick that scared off guests (07:09)
  • How an accountant saved the show (07:46)
  • How to grow out of your comfort zone (8:41) 
  • Why Tom completely overhauled his website (10:01)
  • What’s more important than tracking analytics? (11:55) 
  • What impact has podcasting made on Tom’s business (15:23) 
  • Why it’s important to put your potential guests under a microscope first (17:37)
  • What struggle he had with his first guest (18:02)
  • Why you can still have a successful podcast without being a techie (18:59)
  • How Tom maximized this F-word (21:27)
  • Alexa, “Play Small Business Conversations with Tom Shay” (22:46)
  • Why fix what’s not broken? (24:39) 
  • The only reason you should start a podcast (25:44)


Cliff Duvernois: Hey there, world-changers and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Podcasting. Today’s guest is a fourth-generation entrepreneur with a company called profits. Plus his mission helps small businesses increase their profits, plus build their business for the future. Now for his podcast, he started way back in 2009, if you can believe it. So if anybody is qualified to write a book about podcasting for your business, it would be our guest today. 

Speaking of writing, he’s written for more publications than anybody else I know, including marketplace retail, swim journal, Christian Retailing, just to name a few of the 70 publications that he has been published in. So everyone, please help me in welcoming to the show, the host of the Small Business Conversation podcast. Tom Shay. Tom, how are you? 

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: Thank you. Thanks for letting me come and share with you this afternoon. I’m thrilled to have the opportunity.

Cliff Duvernois: You bet. So why don’t you tell us a little bit more about your business? What is it that you do? 

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: I get paid to talk. Is that kind of the short of it? Um, whether it’s writing or whether it’s verbally, I get paid to talk to people. You would categorize me as a speaker. Let you go to a trade show or conference in. I stand in the front and in an interactive mannerism. I’m bringing you some kind of information to help you with your business.

Cliff Duvernois: nice. And what are the, what are the topics that 

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: you speak about.

I deal with things like financial understanding because so many small business owners do what they do, because that’s what they love. That’s their big advantage. They’re so passionate about the product or service that they bring. But business management is not something that they spend a lot of time on.

We discuss aspects of marketing. We talk about business strategy. We talk about staff education. anything that a person who has a small business needs to be aware of these components because they wear all the hats to be worn within their business.

Cliff Duvernois: When you’re talking about wearing all the hats, right. You’re talking like that phrase that I’ve heard so many times the chief everything officer.

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: That’s it? Yeah. That is the CEO and many of their businesses and yes, they do. And have an awful lot to do so. My place in life is to say, let me help you. Let me share with you some ideas here, here’s things. And as you gave me the introduction, I’m fourth generation. So let’s see, this is, this would be the 99th year.

Yeah, this would be 99 year. My great-grandfather were still around running the what was the original business?

So w a lot of history it’s been around that long, you better have learned something or, I mean, I did pay attention not only at at work, but for many years up until the let’s see, 1958, when my grandparents had the family business, they were prior to that, living above the store, down on the first floor where the store was in the back.

You went through a little doorway and on the right there, there was the kitchen.

Cliff Duvernois: Oh, that’s awesome. I love to hear these kinds of stories. Well, you’ve got your business, you do marketing strategy, staff education and all this other stuff. And it sounds absolutely yummy. What made you decide to get into podcasting? 

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: It was for lack of a better word, the competition now. I had been to educational sessions in the audience side. For many years, I listened to people and based upon what I heard, what I learned, I formulated, what did I want to share? And coming to this one, moving away from the business was in large part, due to an opportunity I had to speak in front of a group.

And I thought that was fun. And a particular vendor who kept saying, you know, if I could take you to other people’s businesses, Their sales would double it. They just do some of the things that you’re telling them that you you’ve done in your place. You said Pete, this was at cliff ready. Here’s the magic court.

People would pay to hear what you have to say. Pay my support. So that’s where it started. But the question specific to the podcast. As I went along, I thought this is quite an honor to get to speak in front of people. This is an honor to get, to have a magazine, pay me to write an article for them. And it aggravated me that I would watch other people teaching things and then hear the sales pitch. Okay, well, here, you can do this and this is how much it would cost you. And you can do that. And while there are multiple aspects, one of them were people who would go out there and say, Hey, we have a little get together before they called it a podcast. And for only 29 95, you can join me on the program this month.

And I go, really, you’re going to charge someone $30 to talk to you. I mean, my wife says I won’t shut up and I go, I’m just going to do. I’m just going to create it and it’s for free. And it was simply by a conference phone line. That’s where it started. It was a conference phone line that had an option that would allow you to record your conversation.

That’s how simple it was. And I go, you people out there, who do you aggravate me that you’re charging people. They’ve heard you speak someone paid you nicely to speak in front of them, and now you want to turn around and gig them for another 30 bucks. So I go, now I’m going through. Which is a whole lot, a whole lot of my business models.

There’s so much stuff I do. It’s like, no, it’s just all free. It’s like, someone’s already paid me. You don’t need to pay me again. You’re a small business owner. Let me give you a hand here. And that’s just always been my mantra. Can I help you with something here? Call me, write me, talk to me someplace, huh?

I’ll gladly do it. Well, how much? There’s no meter to run it just let’s just talk about it. So that, I mean, that’s where the podcast started and then it just kind of agree with, you mentioned the 2009. The first four years of the podcast have all been thrown in the trash can and just know it was well, it was because it was me call in.

Here’s the, here’s the topic I’m on. Discuss with you tonight. We talked about stuff and someone I knew called one day and says, you know, I hear you speaking for the audiences. They’re fun. I hear you do your program. It’s boring. And he says you don’t have people in front of you to interact with. He says, how about I come on and you gotta be older to know who I’m talking about here, but his comment was, I’ll be your ed McMahon.

Okay. Now, does that age you at that point? Do you know who Ed McMahon was

Cliff Duvernois: Oh, yeah, I know pain is. Yeah.

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: from yeah. From Johnny Carson tonight, not show you would be my side kick. I’ll be your wing man, for lack of a better phrase. And it went for a while, but, uh, he always wanted to be controversial. He always wanted to argue with the people who were the guests. You want to question? I go, no, no, no. This the people who are going to be on our program, once we started adding people were, um, kind of share.

I mean, yeah, I mean, I’ve had two people who refuse to be on my program and all the years I’ve done it only two. And I said, I’m not here to argue with them. Um, but the guest aspect came because I got a call one day and it says, you don’t know me, but I know you. I used to own a bicycle shop and I would hear you speak at Interbike the big bicycle show in the United States each year.

And I see you’re going to talk about accountants. Could I listen to the program? And my one moment of bright ideas was I said, I got a better idea. Why don’t you just talk with me during the program. You’re a CPA. Now, why don’t you just talk to me, let’s just visit about it. And that’s what got the guests go. And it’s like, wow, that was like a great program.

And ours are a long podcast. They’re an hour long and it went very, very well and well-received and I go, okay, I got to go find somebody for next month.

Cliff Duvernois: Wow. Interesting. So before, and I want to go back and revisit this, cause I’d like to know a little bit more about it, but you, you said basically the first four years of your podcast, you went back and scrapped through it in the trash. Why did you decide 

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: to do that?

because I really believe my friend who said it was boring. It’s like, it really didn’t have the excitement. And it’s like doing a zoom meeting. It’s a struggle if the Zoom meeting is set up that I’m presenting and I’m not seeing people to interact as well as the time delays. I live off of people being in front of me where I can, uh, for example, I, unless you just force me, I’ll never stand on the stage to speak to people.

I walked down in the audience, I want to talk to people and look at them. I want to gauge their eyes and we’ll see who’s taking notes and what they’re writing down and stuff like that. So changing to this format was a bit of a challenge. I go, I could see where it would not have been that good of a program where it was me and someone might

jump in and ask a question about something. So when we went to the format of the guest, which was, I think like March of 2013, it’s like, these are good. And people start saying, I go back and listen to them because we record them and we post all of them on our website and that’s before all the podcasts services shit.

Cliff Duvernois: Wow. That must have been a very interesting time. I did not come along to getting into podcasting until you had services out there, like, Libsyn and blueberry and podcasting services like that. So for you to take, , these MP3s basically just post them to your site through a player. That’s pretty cool.

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: that was it. And then we could, we did them with MP4 and, actually we’re in the process right now. Dismantling and rebuilding our entire website. Well, the last time we did that, it took us two years to rebuild the site. It is, uh, it’s that massive. I was working on it this morning and I just stopped and took account said, okay, how many of the pages have we now redesigned for the new site?

And it was 250 pages, just a few before you. And I started this phone call that we, that we’ve covered. Which means we’ve got another thousand or so pages to get to convert.


Cliff Duvernois: Moses. That’s one huge website.

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: It’s a source of pride because, a lot of what I’ve created is we call it calculators. Someone needs to make a decision in their business and they listen to somebody like me. Who’s tells him something and get, well, I’ll just go do that. And I go, no, no, no, no. You have to make the decision based upon your business.

So you can’t just say, well, raise your prices 5%. Let’s make that with actual numbers. What’s your, what’s the exact numbers in your business right now. And so I would build things in an Excel chart, and if I could figure out how this calculation needs to go in an Excel chart, then there’s a process. You’d go through that.

You can turn it into a calculator that’s online. Some of our calculators, you download, some of them use them online. And again, same thing. It was one of these, what, what are you going to do with it? I said, well, we’re going to give it away. Why? Well, wife’s book, how much time did we spend building this few days?

You know, what do we spend? A couple of hundred, but I think the most expensive page we ever built was like $600 by itself. All right. Well, we have 47 of these calculators right now. So what do you want to know about your business? What we can, we can show you go to this page, punch in your name. And click it’s there.

There’s your answer? And it’s your answer? Not a answer. It’s your answer?

Specific to your business.

Yes, because you put in the numbers out of your business and, um, because I don’t track things like I’m not interested in Google analytics. I’m just thrilled when someone says I figured out how to do this. Thanks for the calculator. That’s all I need to know. You used it. You had a good time. We don’t have that little disclaimer on our website that says click here because we use cookies to accept this.

We don’t, I don’t track anything. It’s just it’s there. And when you leave a page, all the numbers disappear. You know, I’m not like trying to write a book based upon the people who visited my website.

Cliff Duvernois: That’s that’s almost like the, the antithesis of what I hear when I talk to marketing gurus. Cause they’re all about measure everything. Right. Got, gotta have Google analytics and know what pages on your website are being visited and how long were they on the website and what did they click on and what forms that they use, but you kind of taking a very different tack you’re saying I don’t care about any of that information.

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: no, I don’t, I’m going to do it because I can do it. And I it’s once you got something out of it, but things like, Last week I spoken Atlantic city. I have a thing that I do when you come into a live session I’m doing, I hand you a eight and a half by 11 it’s postcard material. I read a study somewhere many, many years ago that said the average adult is not a good student and that if they don’t do something with what they’ve heard within 72 hours of having heard it, the odds are.

They’ll do nothing at all with information. I go, but you sat here and listened to me for an hour, an hour and a half, or, oh my gosh, this session in the fall, it was like three hours long. It’s like, that’s a lot of participation. I go. So I hand you this card and I tell you to address the postcard to yourself.

On the other side, it says, what are you going to do? When we’re done, hand me back. My postcard. I’m going to read it as best. I can read your handwriting over the next couple of weeks. I make notes on it because I write a note back to you. I write with green E green color of money. Money is what we’re here to talk about.

And in 14 days I cut the postcard, a bat apart. I buy a stamp and I maybe even postcard. And now it’s in your court. Are you going to do something with it? Yes or no? You know, I, I can’t help you any further than that. And I joke when we tell anyone outside the United States, I said, okay, so all you Canadians, how many hold up in hands?

Are you. It’s like a dollar 50 to buy a stamp in the United States to mail a postcard to Canada or to Japan or to China or anywhere else I got. So I’m spending a dollar 50 on you, you know, put something nice on there. Don’t don’t put a, just doodle put something like you’re really gonna do it. Okay. Get your dollar 50 worth out of this postcard here.

And I get people who, who appreciate it. It’s um, oh, like this one clip. I get a note on this one. And we were talking about the changes in business because of what happened through the pandemic and this very nice person named Kevin merits, wrote a note and says with mindsets like this, the world can and, and is positively affected.

It was a great privilege to be in this class today. Thank you. Okay. I don’t need analytics. That’s my energy high right there. Hey, it helped you. You, you went home. I’m happy for you. We’re both in a good mood.

Cliff Duvernois: That trick with the postcard, uh, is it’s a really nice touch. I mean, you’re taking a little bit of time to invest in your audience because they certainly have invested in you, especially giving you their time. What would you say that that podcasting has done for your business?

Or how has podcasting helped you with.

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: Well, it’s a little hard to answer without the analytics. And mind you it’s, you have to realize I created the podcast simply because people are out there charging for stuff. And it’s one of these I’m going to counter you. I am going to counter your actions by saying, how can I help somebody? But when I’m at events and people say, Hey, I heard this podcast, or I heard this.

This was neat. I had a couple of folks here at Dyson. Wow. Uh, I was in a group discussion. It was for people who were in garden centers and they were asking a question about loyalty programs. And I jumped in and I said, well, you may want to go back and listen to this podcast. And in this second podcast, the first one we talked about loyalty programs.

And the second we talked about premium loyalty programs. And here’s a link to both of them. It’d be go on the website. And this person came back to things, you know, that’s, that’s the information I was looking for. And I looked through your, your list. There you go. Wow. You know, you got quite a list of impressive people that you have found who, who will share information.

Uh, for example, our podcast is this Thursday night and my guest is a gentleman by the name of Ken Banks. Well, who in the world is Kim banks for most people. Ken banks was the marketing head behind, let’s see, PetSmart, Eckerd Drugs, circuit city, Lazy Boy. And he’s in the retail advertising hall of fame. So sometimes I just happened to have bumped into people.

And the audience I rarely have, I think I’ve gotten one person. Where there are organizations out there who send you emails like, Hey, I want to recommend so-and-so for your podcast and blah, blah, blah. I’m starting to get those letters now because with organizations like you having spoken to me and someone else had a magazine article with a here’s the top 20 podcasts.

And we were in that list. Yeah. People are starting to look for us. The unfortunate part is most of the people don’t fit to our audience. My audience is not interested in hearing how you made $5 million in your filthy. Rich. Uh, my audience is not interested in hearing how you’re the CEO, CFO, COO, and all the other awards out there.

My audience are mom and pops, small business owners, the place where you go to get your clothes dry clean, the place that you go, buy your bird, food, the place where the guy who takes and landscapes your yard. That’s my audience. So I tell him no. When you, when you start getting into fancy letters, it’s, you’re not going to work as a speaker for my group.

I even struggled with the very first speaker who’s been back multiple times. I go quit giving me IRS code numbers. Well, according to IRS form number 2274. And I go, no, no, no, no, no. Don’t, don’t do that to me. Back up what you just said, what is that about? Just give us the bread and butter up. What is that form about?

Do I need to know that

Cliff Duvernois: talk to us in English.

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: yeah, that’s the basis so that when we’re through with the hour, I haven’t made a page of notes as to, Ooh, let me go look on the website and look up all these really fun forms because that’s just not going to happen.

Cliff Duvernois: Oh, I bet. I absolutely bet. Now you’ve been doing your podcast now, you started way back in 2009 you’ve you’ve obviously got a clear format. You’re resonating really well with your audience, but let me ask you this, when you’re getting started with podcasting, what was, what was one of the biggest struggles.

That you had getting into this environment and, uh, how did you overcome it?

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: As much as people like to think. I I’m a techie. I am not. My podcast is so simple. Okay. I mean, do you mind if I share with you the particulars? Like whose whose stuff I use?

Cliff Duvernois: go right ahead.

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: All right. So this started, uh, I mean, to send out the announcement it’s I just I’ve subscribed to constant contact. I sent an announcement out on a Sunday. I sent an announcement out on Thursday morning, bright and early. It’s like, here’s what the program’s going to be about. So, I mean, that’s a fairly simple where you use constant contact or MailChimp or something like that. And it started by simply using, free conference Yeah, which was just, that’s all. It was, it was just a call service. Hey, I mean, people don’t put in your phone call up to 100, it’s so many cents per minute, and I thought I’m invest in people. So it’s like, I w I want a worldwide 800 number so people can call in and then they morphed into what is start

And they create a little button on there where now it’s like, Hey, you can broadcast on the internet live. So people don’t have to dial in to hear you. They can go into that. Uh, I said, I paid for the 800 number. I just thought it’s not that anymore. What three or 4 cents a minute. More than what it’s at.

It’s like, okay, does this, do I spend some dollars for it? Yeah, but to me it’s gotta be a part of that overall. I’m not getting it for anything. It’s just coming to enjoy. How easy can I make it for you to do business, particularly when I’m teaching a class on. Hey, how easy can you make it? Well, I could do this, this isn’t that expensive.

It has high perceived value. So we went to start meeting and everything came down here, to make it even . I just found somebody’s website out there. It says convert MP3 to MP4, and it’s just a single picture that we throw up and it converts the hour long MP3 to the MP4 and just a few minutes and back download it and slap it on our site.

Our site. Yes, it is massive. And it’s a little complex. It’s built with, um, what was originally Dreamweaver. And now it’s part of

Cliff Duvernois: Whoa.

I haven’t heard Dreamweaver and I don’t know how many years

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: well, but, but it’s still out there. I mean, they’re up to right now, they’re on Dreamweaver 19, Alright, I’m on Dreamweaver six. It’s like why it works. I’m very familiar with it and it’s it’s going along. I needed some graphics in some places I needed some voiceover in places.

I went to Fiverr, F I V E R I found a person on there whose voice is exactly like the person who first did our recordings years and years ago. That person had retired. This guy, his name is D oddly enough, both of them, the original and the second person, their name was D he did a little voiceover.

So on start meeting, you can load up these little sound snippets, wherever you want. Ah, let’s see. What else did start meeting have so they can record it. I can download it from there. And then we found, Anchor, anchor, FM, and. Started using their thing. Well, that camp was a neat place to hold a bunch of stuff.

And then we just started finding the podcast services that there’s a word we’re right now, rebroadcast on 18 services.

Cliff Duvernois: Yes, it’s a man. It’s I tell you, even the short number of years that, that, I’ve been into it compared to you just to see all the big advancements and leaps, that they are making. And it’s amazing just how the distribution of podcasts, especially over the last two years.

It’s just absolutely skyrocketed and all these big companies like your Spotify is, and, the New York times, they’re all out there gobbling up podcasts as quick as they can, because it’s, it’s just a very powerful, very powerful 

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: platform.

Well, it is a very powerful and a second thought of answering your question about what’s it it’s done. It’s pretty neat. When someone says you do podcasts and go yes, that I can walk over to a Google or an Amazon device and say whatever gadget I’m in front of “Play Small Business Conversations with Tom Shay” and boom.

There it is. Now the part I have not figured out. And we catalog them. We, we seize them an episode and all that kind of stuff, but it’s like, wow, it’d be neat. If the services could get to the point where voice wise, you can identify which specific one you want. Now the challenge to that though, is that, well, if you know exactly which episode do you want, you’re probably looking at my website.

So why not just click it and get it right there because, and that house you’re going to know that person. No how else would you know that you want Ken Banks?

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah, because I think my default looking at a Alexa the last time I kind of played around with it is that when I told it, go ahead and play, X podcast, it started at episode one and unless I was very specific and said, Hey, go to this podcast, play episode 47. It would start at one and then it would play the next one after that.

But you’re right. I mean, if you’ve got, hundreds of episodes, it becomes a little bit cumbersome, on that device, unless you write some Alexa skill, which I have zero desire in doing, to be able to track like the individual to find out like where they left off or be able to say, Hey, yes, I found this podcast.

Would you like to listen to the one with, Tom Hanks or. Yeah, Joe Rogan or something else like that. So that kind of gives suggestions for people to, to key in on those, those top rated podcast episodes.

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: Yeah, that, that makes for a bit of challenge. And remember, you’re talking to the person here who is still using a Dreamweaver six


Cliff Duvernois: Six.

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: And people go, wow. You know, why don’t you upgrade? And I go, look, what, all that. It works just fine. I mean, I’ve had, we did look at trying to change formats and what I have found a lot people coming to a site, well, we’ll build your website and we’ll get you into WordPress.

We’ll get you to that. And I go folks, it’s just, there’s just too much muscle going on inside our website for me. To use one of those. I don’t want to call it lightweight, but they just, if I had 15 or 20 pages. Okay. But those calculators are just bears to make them all happen.

Cliff Duvernois: Now, because you’ve been doing this for so long. I have to say I admire the simplicity of your entire model. And I also have to give you kudos too for doing your episodes live because a lot of people aren’t quite that brave yet. So for an entrepreneur out there, a small business owner who, has a podcast, maybe they’re struggling with.

Their podcast, based on your extensive experience, what would be one piece of advice that you’d want to give them?

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: the first one, if you got an answer, why? Why do you want to do this? Okay. Hopefully it’s not money and fame. It that, why do you want to create this thing to share with people? It can be a great source for you as a reference point that you could send people to, to learn about stuff. Uh, while it’s YouTube, there’s a gentleman in Fort Myers, Florida, and his expertise is swimming pools and he that’s what he does.

He builds swimming pools. And as you might imagine, part of the job is going out and giving bids. Here’s how much it’s going to cost because you’re not going to just go, well, let’s find the next person on the street and whatever his prices is, we’re fine with it. This gentleman makes a big series of how to take care of your swimming pool, all the things you got to do, clean the filters, change stuff out and.

He tells people here’s who I am. Go look online and you can learn this stuff about me. Well, as you do that, he knows that if he can get a person to go and watch five of his YouTube videos, he closes the overwhelming majority of the sale.

Other than that, he’s just out there like everybody else try and do bids. He’s the expert. So from a standpoint of your business, whether in my world, you sell clothing or you sell furniture or home stereo equipment, that podcast can be a wonderful marketing piece for, you know, I’m of the age group. That when you want to get your message out there, you paid a lot more money.

No television, radio, newspaper, direct mail, yellow pages, all kinds of things. So much of this stuff, because it’s essentially free? Yup. You can buy a nice microphone, buy nice headphones, a nice camera, for stuff, but it’s relatively a lot more expensive, but you get us before we spend all this time. Why, what do you want, what do you want your program to get for you?

Cliff Duvernois: Okay, sounds good. And if people want to come and absorb all 3000 pages of your website or follow you online, what’s the best way for them to do.

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: My website is profits And my phone number is all over the place and my email’s there. And, uh, I tell folks, you call them, you’re going to get me.

You’re not going to talk to a staff person. I take, if I’m not in the office, the phone number forwards my cell phone. So I’ll be somewhere in around north America. Glad to visit with people. It just fascinates me with people say, Hey, I just do this glad to share with, you know, it’s easy. If I could, very soon, as soon as the, uh, time limitation runs out, I had a magazine that I wrote a big thing about how do I do the podcast?

 So that’s fairly soon coming up and I’ll, I’ll have that one up there on the website. Which you mentioned my magazine. So yes, I, I have written a lot of things who knew I never took a journalism class in my, in my life.

But I go back and I put all the articles I’ve written for the last 30 years up on the website. And we, we, we bought somebody a little, I think it was called free, find a search tool. It’s like $19 a month that you go to our website. It’s like Google, except it’s just only on our site tells you here’s how to find anything on our place, trying to solve the problems before they happen for people.

Cliff Duvernois: And for our audience, we will have all those links down in the show notes down below Tom. It’s been awesome. Having you on the podcast today. Thank you.

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: My pleasure. I appreciate you calling me. I, I encourage people that it’s, it’s a fun adventures, as long as you know why you want to do it. It’s not scary. It’s not challenging. And you made the comment about, simplicity. I’ll close with this quote from, uh, a guy by the name of Leonardo da Vinci, who said, ” simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.”

Cliff Duvernois: It. Thank you Tom, for being on the show today.

Tom Shay, Profits Plus: Thanks for having me. I enjoyed it.