Marc Mawhinney has been podcasting since 2014, which in terms of internet years is like forever and a day. But he saw the need for a podcast show that was going to be able to help coaches grow their business. He started the “Natural Born Coaches” Podcast and each week his episodes gives his audience actionable strategies that they can use to grow their business. And it’s almost that 800 episodes.

When he’s busy, not delivering value from behind the mic. He speaking at events like social media marketing world, entrepreneur city live as well as TP3X conference. And if you like the written word, you can find all kinds of online publications, including the very coveted Entrepreneur.com. 

Topics we covered:

  • The Gold, The Bankruptcy, and the Breakthrough
  • The Secret to Monetizing Your Podcast
  • The Impact of Authenticity in Podcasting

This episode is brought to you by “Start My Business Podcast Challenge“. I’ve been using podcasting as a powerful business growing tool for years. Nothing is more powerful than podcasting for help businesses grow. If you’re tired of playing roulette with your ad dollars and frustrated with algorithms constantly changing on social media platforms, the only thing that has changed about podcasting is the popularity of the platform.

If you’re a business owner and you want to grow your business but you’re not sure where to start, then join the FREE 5-Day Start My Business Podcast Challenge. Within 5 days, you’ll go from no podcast to having a full realized podcast with built in strategies to help use this tool for your business.


Select Links from the Episode:

Show Notes:

  • What does, “Natural Born Coaches,” do for their clients? (01:27)
  • Why losing his Midas Touch was the Key to his success/ Why Losing His Midas Touch Ignited Natural Born Coaches (01:50)
  • Who became Marc’s Saving Grace when tagged as public enemy #1? (03:14)
  • Why bankruptcy isn’t the end of the world (05:58)
  • Why it’s important to take a leap in the dark (06:48) 
  • What was the secret to keeping his sanity at that start of his success? (07:28)
  • Is it too late to start a podcast? (07:52)
  • Why is podcasting a great networking tool? (09:04)
  • How did podcasting become a primary revenue driver? (09:42)
  • What amazing things can podcasting do for your credibility? (10:22)
  • What’s guaranteed to give you a spike in downloads and growth? (11:46)
  • The one thing you should NOT obsess over (12:02)
  • Why simplicity is key (13:34)
  • Why being hot is overrated (13:51)
  • What fake gurus can’t get enough of (14:06) 
  • My #1 advice for beginners in podcasting to avoid getting stuck (16:32)
  • Why commitment isn’t always key (17:51)
  • How Marc got himself out of a rut (18:21)
  • How podcasting made it easier to convert listeners into clients (18:55)
  • Marc’s unique method of monetizing his podcast show (19:28)
  • How some podcasters cheat their numbers (21:44) 
  • Why podcasting isn’t a get rich quick scheme (23:34)
  • Why exclusivity trumps size in podcasting (25:01)
  • How Marc never struggles to come up with content (26:18) 
  • How Marc adds a little spice to his show (27:31)
  • What are the repercussions of tackling controversial topics? (28:49)
  • How Marc’s authenticity made for a diverse clientele (30:16)
  • It’s raining cats and F-bombs (31:06)
  • Why Stan Lee is a huge influence on Marc (32:30)
  • How to set yourself apart from the status quo (33:58) 

Transcript:

Cliff Duvernois: Hey there world changers and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Podcasting. Now, today, our guests. Has been podcasting since 2014, which in terms of internet years is like forever and a day. But he saw the need for a podcast show that was going to be able to help coaches grow their business in each week. Has episodes gives his audience actionable strategies. 

That they can use to grow their business. And it’s almost that 800 episodes. So this guy’s no joke. Now when he’s busy, not delivering value from behind the mic. He speaking at events like social media marketing world, entrepreneur city live as well as TP3X conference. And if you like the written word, you can find all kinds of online publications, including the very coveted entrepreneur.com. 

So everyone, please help me in welcoming to the show, the host of the Natural Born Coaches podcast, Marc Mawhinney. 

Marc, how are you? 

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: I am doing good. And thanks for having me on, Cliff. 

Cliff Duvernois: Excellent. So tell us about your business. What is it that you do exactly? 

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: In a nutshell, my whole thing is helping coaches get more clients without paid ads. So it’s all organic, not paid marketing like Facebook ads or Google or anything like that.

That’s all without putting money out of pocket, getting more clients. So that’s a, and I’m glad you’re doing this show cause I’m a huge fan of podcasting, obviously. 

Cliff Duvernois: Nice. And what was it that attracted you to the field of coaching? 

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: Well, that’s a really long story. I’ll give you the CliffsNotes, have no pun intended Cliff’s notes version. With, uh, basically my background is in real estate. I spent about a decade throughout my twenties building up a real estate business here in Canada. It got quite large. I had about a hundred agents and employees.

I’d five sister companies working under the umbrella, a couple offices and all that?

fun stuff. And then everything came crashing down, a little over a decade ago. So I spent a couple of years traveling in the wilderness. I always say the not the literal wilderness. Figuratively. And after a decade of everything I touched, turned to gold, there was a couple of years where everything I touched, turned to ship.

So basically I was held back to my feet by several different coaches and mentors and was ready to get back into business in early 2014. I thought, wow, what a great business coaching would be. And that’s how I got into coaching. 

Cliff Duvernois: nice. And because this is something I want to make sure that we go back and explore. Cause you were talking about how you were wandering. In, in the wilderness, what was some of those? Because this is something that all entrepreneurs face, right? Not just coaches, but all entrepreneurs. Right? We face those moments where it’s, it almost feels like we have those days where it’s do or die, or sometimes those days turns into a week or turns into a month.

And so my question to you is that from a coaching standpoint, is there something that your coach has really shared with you that like really turned a light bulb on in your head and said, you know what? I’m so pushing forward once again.

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: One of the things that stands out is a, and this wasn’t an actual paid coaches would be more the mentor, but I think there’s definitely some overlap. After the business closure, I was getting kicked around pretty good by my local media. Some of it warranted. Some of it, I think was a little over the top.

I was Hitler for awhile there, public enemy number one. And this person reached out to me in my home province here in Atlanta, Canada. And he lived about an hour away. Never spoke to him before in my life. I didn’t know who he was. And he had read some of the newspaper stuff and some of the stories are out there and he reached out and he said, Hey, I just want to let you know kudos for trying, don’t beat yourself up.

This happens to the Bastow. I’d love to take you out for coffee sometime. And now at this point stages. I wasn’t in my most sociable mood, I was more like, I want to stay in my room with the curtains close. I don’t want to see the outside world, but something said, you know what? I’ll get out of town.

I’ll drive an hour, I’ll meet with them. I don’t even drink coffee. I’m going to lose my Canadian citizen ship. I hate coffee and beer, but I said, I’ll get up. I’ll go. I’ll meet with.

them. And at least I can clear my head, get some fresh air, go for a drive. And so I drove an hour away. I was sat down and it was a real turning point for me because he was explaining to me some of his options.

I’m also explaining some of the issues. Some prominent entrepreneurs in our neck of the woods had, that had gone through some of the same things. Like I had business closure, bankruptcy get kicked around all that other stuff. And I left that meeting. Just did a one. For my energy, because suddenly I didn’t look at a business closure being like a Scarlet letter on your chest set.

Everyone’s identifying as it’s like, wow, I’m not the only person going through this. And and I badge of honor might be maybe not the right wording with it, but I felt much better coming out of that. And I’m very grateful that he reached out because he didn’t have to write. To me, I was a stranger, he just read newspaper stories or whatever.

And so I’ve done the same thing when I hear businesses close. And this is something that’s happening a lot in these COVID times, right? I’ll sometimes reach out to the person that I see. That’s often getting attacked in the media or social media or whatever, and I’ll do the same thing. I’ll tell them to keep their head up and let me know if they need anything and if they want to chat or whatever.

And I think that’s important entrepreneurs supporting. 

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah, I completely agree with that. And you, you brought up a really good point because a lot of people think of like a bankruptcy is in terms of, it’s over it’s the ultimate failure. And I can’t remember the exact statistic. It’s a fairly large majority of entrepreneurs who are like successful when I’m talking about successful.

I’m talking like a million dollars plus a that have gone through bankruptcy. So bankruptcy is not the end of the world. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: Yeah. I spoke with someone else back when all this was going on. And he had said in places like Silicon valley attack, world, stuff like that, people won’t invest with an entrepreneur who hasn’t gone belly up at least once, because it shows that they haven’t. Any risks, they’re playing it safe. Now maybe you don’t wanna invest with someone who’s gone belly up 10 times, but a few times isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

I learned my lessons from it. I’d rather not go through that situation again, but I wouldn’t be talking with you here today. And there, there are some silver linings when you go through stuff like that. Me personally, I could, well, it introduced me to coaching basically gave me a thicker skin.

If I’m getting attacked by some stranger, 500 miles away in his mom’s basement, on the internet and a keyboard warrior, I’d been attacked by worse with it. So there’s Definitely. some positives that came from it.

Cliff Duvernois: Definitely. What made you get into podcasting?

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: Well, anytime I start something, I’m the type of guy I a leap first. I don’t look then leap. I tend to just jump in. Now there’s also that play on the saying instead of ready, aim, fire. What is a fire ready? Aim. 

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah, I think it’s ready. Fire aim or something. Yeah.

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: so I, I tend to not overthink things because then he gets stuck in a paralysis trap analysis by paralysis.

And I’m sure, you know, people cliff the plan to start a podcast three years ago and they’re still in research mode. yeah.

Um, there wasn’t a long runway from when I said, Hey, what’s this podcasting thing. And I think I want to start one two when it went live. Basically I, this was November 20th, 2014 is when the show launched.

And I, it was a daily show for the first year. Actually I was editing it myself as well. I don’t know how I’m not in the loony bin because now I have a team. My twin brother has a podcast editing business. He started the following year after I started my podcast. Very gladly handed it over to them. But basically at the time, and I say this just in case, anyone’s saying gee, mark, you got in early and it’s too late to start podcasting.

I thought I was late to the party in 2014. So I learned from John Lee, Dumas, entrepreneurial fire, he, and his partner, Kate had a podcast there’s paradise program that I was in and I thought, gee, I’m too late. If I’d only started my show back when John started his, I think he’s. 2012 or whatever, or, or there’s some people I know Scott Patton, for example, he was a real veteran in podcast in 2006, he was doing a show, which is not.

So I thought I was late. Now, people are saying the same thing. Oh, gee mark. You’re lucky, in 2022. Yeah, I’m too late to it. So yeah, basically I just I wanted the vehicle to get my message out to more people and I thought podcasts is interesting. I’ve listened to a regular listener to some podcasts, like in the baseball world and stuff like that.

I thought I’ll start one for coaches and that’s that’s how it started. 

Cliff Duvernois: Nice. Is there something specific about podcasting that you thought this is going to be just a great marketing tool for my business?

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: Ah, geez. Well I won’t use the, I got a face for radio. How many times, how many times have podcasts there’s use that joke? You know, it was probably overused. For me, I like to challenge myself and try different things and. There was just something again. I wish I could say that, I dream grew up wanting to be a podcast or anything like that.

It wasn’t that it’s just for me, I thought it sounded like fun, listening to myself speak, but also a great way to meet people too. I thought, wow, this is a way to get my foot in the door. So. Yes. And 751 episodes than the least as of today, I’ve met some incredible people who I probably wouldn’t have met, or I know I wouldn’t have met if not for the podcast.

So that’s something, if anyone’s thinking of starting a podcast, a big pluses, it definitely connects you with some cool folks. 

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. It does. And speaking of connecting you with cool folks, so talk to us. What is podcasting? What is podcasting done for your business?

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: It’s one of my primary revenue drivers. Now that being said, it’s you know, cliff, it’s not a get rich quick. A lot of people think I’ll throw a show up and I’ll make a million bucks in the first year. And it’s like a magic money tree in the back yard. It’s not a, but it’s one of those, what I call my main three pillars with my business, the three being podcasting.

That’s my show. But also going out on shows like we’re doing right now, the other one’s a Facebook group that I have a group with about 22,000 coaches, the Coaching Jungle. So that’s a big one and the other one’s daily emails, which I’ve been doing for years as well. So those are my three pillars. And podcasting was really the first of those three pillars that got established with it.

So I think there’s instant credibility in a lot of ways, especially if you can hang on and do enough episodes, how many podcasters are stuck in Pod Gatory if I say they don’t know if the show is alive or if it’s dead, or pod fading. Yeah. there we go. But yeah, if you could stick in there, people, my world, especially a lot of people.

Are um, roll out of the bed today and say, Hey, I can help coaches get more clients pay me a bunch of money. And sometimes they’re legit often. They’re not, there’s a lot of bad apples in our industry. If someone checks me out and say, oh geez, Don Vino, upwards of 800 podcast episodes. And he’s been around now for eight years and he’s done this and he’s done that.

Then there is a credibility and it makes it an easier sell. But I just had an email actually a couple of days ago from a woman who started a new job. As she’s looking at getting into coaching. She’s been listening to my show on her commute. Cause she’s got to travel a couple hours a day and she sent a message to mark.

I’ve been going through all your episodes, listen to all day long. I said, oh God, sorry, you have to listen to my lane jokes and puns and stuff I use on air sometimes. But yeah, that’s cool. When you get messages like that. 

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah, indeed. Indeed. It is. I love when I go into, the podcast tool or whatever it is, and I’m looking at my downloads and I really don’t pay too much attention to the downloads, but I love it on those days where I like see spikes and I’m like, oh, somebody found my podcast. They love my messaging.

And they binged every episode that I have.

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: Yeah. W well, often I noticed if I go on a show like this then I’ll notice a spike in downloads because once a show is released same thing goes for request to join the coaching jungle Facebook group and stuff. There’s like a huge day. I’m like, wow, we’re getting like triple our normal requested to join.

That’s probably why with it, one piece of advice I would give podcasters and not saying, don’t look at your dashboard, don’t look at your stats. I think it’s good to know those things. Don’t obsess over them. And you probably know people cleft that go into their Libsyn or whatever host and they’re refreshing.

And every hour they’re listening to their own show like multiple times who has time to do that, are they obsess over? Coughed or mispronounced a word at the 17 minute 22 second mark. Now I got to go and redo that and you drive yourself crazy. Uh, me, I record the show. It goes in the can, goes over to the team to produce it, to edit it, upload it and stuff.

I don’t listen to my show again. I don’t want to listen to my self again. I’m too busy and too busy doing other stuff. So don’t obsess over those stats and stuff. If you’re especially new podcaster 

Cliff Duvernois: Right now, often I often will tell the people that I’m working with, that it’s more important that the right person listened to your episode versus how many downloads you’re getting. And that’s a key difference. When I, when I was putting together, this podcast was is the fact that I just didn’t want to speak to podcasters.

I wanted to talk to entrepreneurs who have a podcast because you’re treating the podcast. Like it’s a part of your marketing. And that’s why I love before. When you were talking about the three main pillars, you’re podcasting going out and doing interviews and then your Facebook group, right? Such a very simple marketing plan, right?

It’s not, you’re like you’re trying to out there dominate every single platform that’s out there and try to shove out content. You just come up with these three simple things that are just working really well for you. How did you come up with having such a simple strategy?

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: I’ve always subscribed to the KISS principle, keep it simple, stupid, or keep it simple, silly if you want to be nicer. Now that being said, it’s not that I only do the three things, podcasting Facebook group and daily emails. I do other things. I mean, other places, but I’m focusing primarily on those things.

So I’m not trying to do 176. Different things. So you see how many entrepreneurs feel like they have to do every hot trend? Well, for example, and I may offend some of your people here, but maybe not. Cause we’re in the podcast. Fans are listening about a year ago, everyone was gushing about clubhouse.

You gotta be in clubhouse it’s you absolutely have to be there. You don’t have. Uh, everywhere people say that there’s more than one way to skin a cat, but me, I’ll be honest. I hate clubhouse. I don’t like it. I tried it once. I’ve gone on, I popped on a few times and this is probably generalizing, but it tended to be a lot of douche printers that were just like blowing up their revenue.

Oh yeah. I made a million dollars last month and this is how I did it. And the true story has driving with my fiance. And I was telling her about club house. And I said that story to her. I said I’m going to click on it right now, open the app. And I guarantee you that some idiot that’s bragging about how much money that he’s making.

And I don’t have problem people making money by the way. But. Problem with a lot of the fake gurus that you could tell her full of, you know what, sure enough, I open up the app and we go in to that room and it’s one of those guys saying it. That’s how I made him, at $1.3 million lab. And I was like, Yeah.

that’s clubhouse in a nutshell.

Now I think they’ve changed it, but I also didn’t like I get spoiled cause I listened to a lot of podcasts and audio books, but I listen to two X speed, maybe 1.5, if it’s a fast speaker, With clubhouse, you couldn’t do that. You couldn’t now maybe it’s changed. I think you can listen to recordings of stuff now, but you had to be there live and you’d have to listen to 99% fluff and filler to hope to get 1% of golden nugget, which a horrible use of your time.

And then you have the people like, oh, you gotta be on like Elon Musk hopped on there, whatever I’m like, Yeah.

I can watch tons of his interviews. On YouTube. I can listen to his Joe Rogan. Interview on there or whatever. I’m not going to hang around, hoping to see Damon John or Elon Musk and clubhouse.

There’s a little roundabout club. I was there, but my point being, you don’t have to hop on those things, but I will try different things just to see if I like it, which I did with clubhouse. I had an Alexa flash briefing for about a year, a one minute daily show there. I stopped it because it just, I wasn’t enjoying it.

Wasn’t doing it for me. So I’ll try different things, but those are the three faithful that you mentioned, those three. 

Cliff Duvernois: Nice. And w when you got into podcasting, you’re like me, right? When I do something, I jump in feet first and then figure it out as you’re going down. Who’s it? I think it was I can’t remember. They said entrepreneurs like jumping off a cliff and building the airplane on the way down. That’s like my philosophy and I got to admit, I actually really do like it anyways. So you jump into podcasting and I, and before you mentioned something about how it was, I, it started off as a daily show. What was your chief struggle?

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: Well, I started the doing daily partly because John Lee Dumas, he was doing daily. I’d crushing them with entrepreneur on fire. I thought, oh, it’s working for John. I can do it and all this stuff. And it makes sense in a way I wouldn’t recommend starting daily, by the way, I think I would recommend anyone that’s thinking of starting to show, probably start with a weekly frequency, then you can bump it up.

If you’re. The struggle for me, I realized really quick, I was on a treadmill for that first year. Finding good gas, interviewing them. I, like I mentioned, I was doing the editing, so it was just constantly in front of the, a laptop with a red bull, trying to stay awake and edit. And basically the reason I pulled it back and it’s at a weekly frequency now, and it’s been for, for years as I wasn’t getting.

Times the ROI doing seven shows a week versus one show a week because I didn’t have a lot of time to promote it because a new show was coming out the next day. And you just run off to the next one. So I, I would definitely recommend weekly at least. Don’t do one show a month or something you won’t, it’ll be hard to get traction, but I wouldn’t start with. 

Cliff Duvernois: Nice. And what was that point where you said to yourself, cause you were doing daily and then you switched over to doing weekly, right? So I know for a lot of people out there, when you talk about before about like overthink. Oh my God, this is going to ruin, my podcast is going to kill my download and my audience is going to hate it because I’m going from daily to weekly.

How did you overcome that in your mind? Like, did you also send on an announcement to say, Hey, we’re just switching the weekly. How was that conversation had.

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: A lot of entrepreneurs get pot committed. So they think, because they’d done something a certain way that they have to keep doing it and to use a poker analogy, their pot committed. But it’s like, you have a hand that you don’t like, but you feel like you have to keep shoving the chips into the middle of the table

just because I already bad. So, and we all know poker players, like I’d already got, so I have to keep going or whatever. I backed away from it. I didn’t go from daily to weekly. I end up going seven times a week to five shows a week to three shows a week, and then to one show a week. 

Cliff Duvernois: Oh, okay.

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: So that’s how I did it, which was a little more gradual with it.

But that’s how the show, if you do the math and you see that the show has been running now for a little over seven years, coming up on seven and a half soon, but it’s got that many episodes it’s because the first 350 some or 360 were accumulated really quickly in that first year, then it was scaled back. 

Cliff Duvernois: Nice. So what has, what is some of the biggest successes that you’ve had with your podcast and how’s it helped to get, to grow your business?

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: Well, I mean, I’ve gotten clients from it. Someone to reach out, it helps with the KLT. Uh, that’s know, like, trust. The thing that’s so important for us entrepreneurs. So I’ve had people who chose to work with me, or they buy a program that I’m offering or something. And they’ll say, I feel like I know you Marc, because I’ve been listening to your show for a couple of years.

I’ve been on your email list. Now I do daily emails. So that that’s where my daily stuff goes to. I love doing the daily emails, but they’ve been reading so much or listening to me so much. They feel like they know. Another place that it’s really helped me. And this is I think a lot of entrepreneurs aren’t taking advantage of this.

I do joint ventures with partners and I do them different than most people in the online space. I do a flat fee JV. so basically, Joe Smith or Mary Jones has a product or a service that could benefit my audience as not exactly what I do. They can pay me X amount. I’ll promote it to my audience. In different places, different things, but one of them is the podcast episode.

So not all of my guests, but I would say roughly. One or two episodes a month, as a joint venture partner where we’ll promote, if we’re doing a webinar together or whatever we’re doing in there. So that’s my way, a big way of monetizing the show. Indirectly people aren’t paying to come on the show.

Cause I don’t know if that really works. You’ve probably seen hosts that try this too. Or they say, Hey, pay me, X number of dollars to come on my show. A lot of people recoil, cause it’s not going to pay to come on the podcast. Uh, but right now my, my one week joint venture. Uh, program or that offers a 5,000 US offer.

So they’re not paying $5,000 just to be on the show. They get a lot of other stuff, but that’s definitely a cherry on top with it. So I prefer to use that method as opposed to, you know, how many podcasters are going through that holy grail to find a sponsorship. They think they’re going to get a sponsor, paying a million dollars or whatever.

That’s very difficult, unless you’re Joe Rogan or one of these big names to do it, I prefer to monetize my show that way with joint venture partners coming on those as guests. 

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah. And what you were talking about before about, you know, guests being charged a fee to be on podcasts. You’ve mentioned John Lee Dumas a couple of times, and I know that this is a big part of his revenue stream. If you want to get in front of his audience as a guest, you do, there’s a fee you have to pay.

And I, off the top of my head, I can’t remember what it is, but there is a fee that you have to pay to basically get on your show, but in exchange for that, you’re being downloaded to, to millions of people that are out there. Cause he’s got that audience actually built up. So, and I know that, part of that monetization path too, which is kind of like why I don’t, I don’t really push it.

But part of that monetization path is you have to actually be able to prove. That you’re going to get that many downloads for an episode. So it’s not like you can go out and start charging people five grand and only get 10 downloads. Right. Cause you’re like, you’re not gonna be in business very long with that model 

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: Yeah.

there there’s been some issues in the past with podcasters. How could we say it politely fudging numbers to get sponsors? So one trick that they used to do, and I don’t know, I think, things have changed now, but I’m sure some people still do it. They would take a popular hashtag on Twitter, for example, Justin Bieber’s fans are using Beliebers or something, by the way, I apologize to you Americans for sending you guys, Justin Bieber.

We’re here in Canada. We, we owe you, I’m just kidding, but, um, they, they would use a hashtag like hashtag. Um, with their podcast episode to get a bunch of 13 year old girls would just click on it, to think of something with Justin Bieber, and then realize that some middle-age dudes podcast, business podcasts, they would listen for a couple seconds click off, but then it would count as a download or listen, so they could bump their numbers up that way.

So how would you like to be a podcast or a sponsor? And who pays for these ads. Oh, wow. We’re getting, a million lessons or whatever, but they’re not really listening to the whole episode or there’s a lot of trickery going on with it. So there’s been some issues there. The podcasting world isn’t.

As reputable when it comes to that as say radio, the radio world, even though radio sounds very old school. I think people trust companies trust, radio more than podcasts. And although I do think podcasting’s becoming more professional and it’s weeding out maybe some bad apples, but just a few thoughts there around sponsorships. 

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah. And you bring up a really good point when you talk about weeding out the bad apples, because the people who I think aren’t, they don’t have a very clear definition or a mission. In my, not only with their business, but with their podcasts. I think that just after they produce 10 or 20 episodes and they’re not getting 10,000 downloads an episode, like they initially thought in their business plan, that by attrition just completely weeds people out.

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I always, when I’m coaching, I’m not a podcast coach, like the say like you are others, but I have helped people do their shows and, I always encourage them to be realistic. And I’d like to think I’m an optimistic guy. I like big thinkers, you know, big goals into that. Uh, But I always tamper that, and kind of bring it down a little bit.

I don’t want to promise them the moon and the stars. Like it’s going to be a get rich quick because it’s not, I think it’s really important to have your business worked out.

on behind the podcast. You know, do you have a solid offer? Do you have a know who you’re presenting it today or clearly defined niche or marketplace?

Which a lot of people don’t. They just think, oh, I’ll start a podcast around motivation. Then the money will come in or whatever. And it’s not as easy as that. 

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah. Cause there’s a lot of times where, you just have to produce episodes and it’s almost like that, but just being an entrepreneur, right? When you start a business, you just have to be faithful, right? You gotta, you gotta have that level of faith, that the future is going to be better, that the future is going to be brighter, that your business is going to take off that you’re going to find your clients.

And I find that to say, it’s the same thing with, with podcasting. You know, you’re not, like I said before, you’re not going to get 10,000 downloads on your very first episode. You might have to produce episodes like you did, where you’re talking about producing for, to the tune of eight years before you start seeing any real meaningful download numbers.

But the important thing to remember, and I want to make sure I stress this. It’s about having the right people hear your message, right? It’s not about the number of downloads in particular, but it’s a matter of the right people that 

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: Yeah, it’s better to have a quote, smaller podcast with a tighter niche community. Yeah. People you have a relationship with as opposed to just loosey goosey. Yeah. You’re getting more downloads, but it’s, um, you’re not getting that ROI with it as well. So same goes with email lists. All these people are concerned about having huge a hundred thousand subscriber email list.

I would rather have an email list. 5,000 people, that you have a good relationship with. You’re going to probably make more than either. Client once a bought a email list of 40,000 names spent many thousands of dollars on it. Didn’t make one sale because they didn’t know her. Right. All of a sudden they’re getting emails from her, like who the heck is this?

And she just tried to shortcut the process and the buyer way into it. And it didn’t work out for unfortunately, so better to build from the ground up. Don’t worry so much about size. Keep that relationship strong with your people, podcasting, email, Facebook groups, it’s all the same across the board for any of those things. 

Cliff Duvernois: Right. Yeah. It’s a matter of touchpoints. Here’s a question I want to ask you. There’s an entrepreneur out there who is listening to this, and they may be struggling with either, you know, coming up with content, podcasting, whatever it is, what would be one piece of advice that you would give that entrepreneur that’s struggling with the podcast.

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: For coming up with content. Well, an easy way is to do an interview based show because then the guest is providing a lot of the content. So I had a solo show, the Marc Mawhinney show for about a year. I did a weekly show for so 50 some episodes and I found it was a lot more work doing that solo show.

Now I do mix in solo episodes for natural born coaches. But 90% of my shows are guests on there and it’s just conversations. And I mean, there’s a little bit of research and stuff like that, but really the guests carrying the load, they’re probably talking two thirds of the time, maybe three quarters of the time or whatever.

And you just have to have some good questions there, but the show does itself. If you’re doing a solo podcast, Definitely a lot more work with trying to some people script it out and all this other stuff. So, I mean, there would be one piece of advice. Do an interview based show, or maybe you do a hybrid where you mix it up, but not all solo episodes.

Cause that is a lot of work, especially when you’re getting started. 

Cliff Duvernois: Certainly. And when you were talking before about, cause I do want to go back and kind of explore this a little bit. When you’re talking about how you do by 10% solo, 90% interviews, why do you still continue to mix the solo?

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: Sometimes there’s something I want to touch on. Maybe it’s a big. That I want to put in. Sometimes it will lead into an offer. Like let’s say I just created a program around something and I want to get it the extra attention, like, okay. I’ll mix in a solo?

episode and I’ll talk about, whatever subject it is.

And then the call to action. Purchase my program at the end of it. So there are certain things that sometimes I don’t want to talk about something and also sometimes there’s topics that might be a little bit more I don’t know if controversials right word, maybe hot button stuff. Some people stay away from those.

I’m tempted Right.

now with everything going on, Joe Rogan and stuff. Maybe I’ll do an episode. Yeah. I probably regret those. get canceled too. But I have a lot of issues with what’s going on with Joe Rogan and the attempts to cancel them at the moment. And I see attacks on free speech and stuff.

Maybe I’ll throw that in there and do one around that. So we’ll see. But that wouldn’t fit into an interview as style one, unless I had someone in that, wants to talk about that that issue or whatever the topic of the day is. 

Cliff Duvernois: So you’re not afraid of tackling some of these more sensitive issues.

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: No. If you look at my daily emails or my social media, it’s pretty clear where I stand on certain things. I don’t go out there to poke the bear nonstop, but I do shaking things up a little bit. Cause I find the coaching world, rather bland and boring. It’s very corporate. Even the coaching books, you read feel like a textbook.

And I was like, oh my God. So you know, this shouldn’t be controversial, but in 2022, it is, I’ve been very open with my support of capitalism. I am not a fan of socialism, Marxism and stuff like that. Politics or whatever. When I put it some type of social media or my emails supporting capitalism I get to respond.

So I’ll get a lot of people, entrepreneurs like, oh my God, mark. Thanks for saying that. I love capitalism, but you can’t say that, cause I don’t want to get tackled oh my God. And our camp say that they support capitalism, we’re in trouble. Then I’ll get some of the other side the the socialist types, it’ll, a message me from there a thousand dollars iPhones complaining their capitalism, or whatever, but that’s fine because I’d rather do that than be in the mushy middle, when it comes to things like I’d rather have.

Raving fans. And then people who hate me instead of indifference and just people like, oh, I don’t know who he is or, rather bland or boring. So yeah, I’m not afraid to tackle big issues.

I’ve talked about things like COVID politics have talked about a month, Joe Rogan. We just touched on here with with that whole thing and other stuff.

And I, I like to do that cause I’ve got strong opinions and Hey, it’s my platform. So I’m going to. 

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah. And I think that the important point to keep in mind, cause I know there’s probably some people that are just cringing when they hear about that. But it really is, it’s really about being authentic, right? You’re not pretending to be something that you’re not. This is the way that I believe.

And I find it oftentimes better. You get a better quality of a client when that client believes the same way that you believe

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: Yeah. You’re not pretending to be someone. And and it goes on the other side of it, I’ve worked with people who one, one in California is a sweetheart. She’s a far left tree hugging hippie type or whatever. And we used to always joke around because she was a Bernie Sanders. I was not.

And we we’d go back and forth, had a lot of fun, but I would encourage her to speak her truth to don’t pretend that she’s, something, she isn’t one of the funny stories I remember with remember when Tony Robbins released his documentary on Netflix back in 2016, I won. I’m not your guru.

Well, anyone who watch it, I always say you should do a drinking game. Every time Tony drops the F bomb, you take a shot, you’d be your ass would be on the floor. Within minutes, because I don’t know what his deal was. If he was trying to break a Guinness book of world records for swearing, but he was just cursing like a sailor, Hey, he’s Tony Robbins.

He to do that. But in the weeks after it’s released, I noticed all these coaches who are in my network where suddenly dropping F bombs and cursing like sailors. And it got a little silly because I knew them from before seeing their stuff that they didn’t curse and swear. And one of them was like, if you don’t go for your AFAN dreams, you’re an awesome piece of garbage and I’d get off your affidavit is just oh my God.

Now I’m not trying to. I am on the alter here because I, my language could be salty. I’m not dropping F bombs in the podcast, but my emails might say crap or BS from when some people are like, oh my God, mark. I don’t think that’s that bad. But

Yeah.

that was, my point being, if you curse like a sailor and that’s how you want to talk.

Go for it, but don’t do it just because you see Tony Robbins doing, it’s like, well, gee, Tony’s the tumbler on top the, or the talk personal development guy in the world. So I got a curse to make it in this business. That’s silly. Just be yourself. I know it sounds cliche, but it’s true. 

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah. I remember reading an article along those same lines when apple became the most valuable company in the world. And so a lot of the CEOs in Silicon valley were like, oh, well, we need to be like Steve jobs and treat our employees like.

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: Yeah. And where are the turtleneck? Black turtlenecks all day. 

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah. Yeah. And that, that destroyed more companies than anything. It was just something very specific that seemed to resonate with apple, but I don’t, I’m not aware of any other company that was able to successfully pull that off. Being able to treat your 

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: I’m big on the Marvel universe. Like the movies and stuff like that. I love going with my son. Yeah. And, uh, but as a kid, I grew up reading comics, both DC and Marvel. And, um, actually people can’t see this because if it’s audio. So there’s a Stan Lee

bobblehead that I have on my desk, Stan on the man, rest in peace.

But I actually have learned a lot. I’ve read pretty much every book that’s been out there, but Marvel, Stan Lee, anything just to consume it. Fascinating guy with his creativity and everything. But before he created the fans that are co-created, some has the fantastic four back in the early sixties, 1961 or two, Martin Goodman who, ran Marvel was.

Always concerned with the latest trends. So if Western comics were big, okay, we’ll just pump, pump out 50 Western titles a month, or romance, comments or comics, or big than even focus on that or a horror or whatever, a horror comics. And he was just followed the trends. Stan Lee was getting burned out because he’d follow trend for a while.

Then they’d have to switch to the next one or whatever. It wasn’t a sustainable business. So he was getting ready to quit. Stanley was going to quit Marvel and his wife basis said, well, if you’re going to quit anyways, why don’t you just write the book that you want to write? The title and you’re going to, if you get fired, you get fired.

You’re gonna quit anyways. And that’s where he had the confidence to do the fantastic four, which was a very. type book. And then of course getting Spiderman and iron man, Thor, Hulk, all these great characters. But that was because he didn’t follow the trends. And that’s what I would say the same thing in our world.

Don’t feel like you have to follow the people who are doing well because that’s what everyone does. And they’re very few, they’re actually successful that way. Just be yourself. 

Cliff Duvernois: Yes be yourself and, make sure your story is authentic. How can people follow you online? How can they find you? Where can they find you? I know you before you mentioned something about Facebook group, but how can people get in touch with you?

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: Yeah. I mean the central hub where you can find the podcast, get on my email list and all that fun stuff. That’s at natural born coaches.com and the Facebook group, which you’re a member of. So thanks for being in there. It’s the coaching jungle. And if you go to that coaching jungle.com, that’ll take you?

to. 

Cliff Duvernois: Awesome. And for our audience, we’re going to have all of those delicious links in the show notes down below. Marc, it’s been a real treat having you on the podcast today. Really appreciate you taking time to talk with 

Marc Mawhinney, Natural Born Coaches: Yeah, thanks for having me.